Need Help With Spelling/grammer.. Lol

Decorating By chellescountrycakes Updated 2 May 2010 , 10:49pm by The_Sugar_Fairy

chellescountrycakes Posted 2 May 2010 , 3:35pm
post #1 of 26

OKay, I am making a reeces peanut butter cups package.

Instead of putting "2 peaunut butter cups" in the peanut butter cup on the package, I'm putting the kids name (DES) and 18th (for the birthday)

So it needs to read "Des' 18th"

I cant for the life of me fiqure this out. and Google is NO help, there are exceptions, and it just doesnt answer me. I have asked friends, and for each two I ask, I get 2 differnt answers.

IS IT Des' 18th
or
Des's 18th.

I THINK Its Des' 18th.

The sad thing is: I homeschool. LOL I just cant wrap my mind around this today. I woke up with another miagraine, and am a little loopy. LOL

I dont wana end up on cakewrecks... LOL

25 replies
Kibosh Posted 2 May 2010 , 3:42pm
post #2 of 26

It happens to all of us!!
I'm almost 100% sure it's Des' 18th.

Have fun icon_smile.gif

Mug-a-Bug Posted 2 May 2010 , 3:46pm
post #3 of 26

Ditto. ^^

Des's would be if there were more than one Des. Tricky language English is, lol. icon_rolleyes.gif

dawncr Posted 2 May 2010 , 3:52pm
post #4 of 26

The possessive form of proper nouns ending in 's' is one of the most confusing rules of English. Lots of people are confused about it, in part, because the rule according to the Chicago Manual of Style is different than the rule used by the Associated Press style guide.

This is it in a nutshell:

When a proper noun ends in 's,' use an apostrophe and the letter 's' for the possessive form. There are a few exceptions to the rule that you can find in the Chicago Manual (e.g., Jesus, Moses).

Tried to find a good summary. These are OK, but not great:
http://www.ncsu.edu/ncsu/grammar/Apostro3.html
http://www.webgrammar.com/FAQ.html#apostrophe-s
http://www.editpros.com/news0405.html

I tend to view the Chicago Manual as a higher standard than AP, and therefore, *I'd* write:

Des's


In short, you could do either way, and it would be correct, depending on which style guide you followed. Probably the best thing is to ask the customer his/her preference? Sorry not much help.

Edited to correct singular/plural agreement error.

chellescountrycakes Posted 2 May 2010 , 3:53pm
post #5 of 26

Thats what I thought, that it would be Des'. BUT, since spelling/grammer and punctuation are not my forte, I hate to do what I think is right, with out others saying the same thing. LOL

Most folks suggested I change it totally to "its the 22nd for Des" or "who's 22? Des!" which I thought was kinda dumb. LOL for me that just doesnt fit. I want it to be as close to real as possible. Had I wanted to do any of that, I'da went with the traditional "Happy Birthday Des" But thats been done before.. LOL

DeeDelightful Posted 2 May 2010 , 4:04pm
post #6 of 26

His name already ends in "S" so Des' is correct.

dawncr Posted 2 May 2010 , 4:05pm
post #7 of 26

Just wanted to add that the plural of Proper nouns ending in a sibilant is to add 'es.'

Therefore, more than one would be:
Deses

Yeah, I know it looks strange, but that's the rule. One never makes a plural by adding apostrophe 's.'

http://www.ossweb.com/plural-possessives-for-proper-nouns-ending-in-sibilants.html


I don't mean to sound like a know-it-all, but the use of apostrophes and sibilants is one of my pet peeves.

Ruth0209 Posted 2 May 2010 , 4:07pm
post #8 of 26

Dawncr is correct. It should be Des's.

frankdiabetes Posted 2 May 2010 , 4:10pm
post #9 of 26

Yes, it's "Des's." Also, grammar.

artscallion Posted 2 May 2010 , 4:13pm
post #10 of 26

I was also taught as dawncr has outlined. Proper nouns are the exception to the "it ends in S, so no added S" rule. It should be Des's.

artscallion Posted 2 May 2010 , 4:17pm
post #11 of 26

You could also ask Des or his parents. It's likely that he's run up against this exact question and has probably found the answer. You don't have to mention anything about cake.

chellescountrycakes Posted 2 May 2010 , 4:24pm
post #12 of 26

THank y'all sooo much!! Dawncr, I can usually see mistakes in grammer, but- the "s" in making something plural confuses me to no end. But I also cant disect a sentence. LOL (or spell)

I guess I should just call her and ask what she wants. LOL

I think that Des' looks better. of course its for a highschool kid, and I have no clue what they are teaching now in school. I know one that after a certain grade will NOT count wrongly spelled words against you in anything. they allow the kids to spell the words how they sound to them. so between texting and that new rule, we should REALLY have some screwed up spelling in 15 years. LOL

Ruth0209 Posted 2 May 2010 , 4:42pm
post #13 of 26

That's grammar, not grammer.

If Des' is wrong, it really doesn't look better.

To answer your question about what they're teaching in school these days, they're teaching the same thing they've always taught, i.e., the correct way to do it. I have this conversation with my DH all the time. He thinks that if everyone does it wrong that it should be considered a change to the English language that should be adopted. I remind him that the majority of the population once thought the world was flat, too, but it was still wrong.

Join the worthy fight against the destruction of the English language!! Do it right!!!! dawncr, I'm with you. The state of the written word is an atrocity. I'm also trying to save the dash. No one knows how to use those, either. : )

chellescountrycakes Posted 2 May 2010 , 5:42pm
post #14 of 26

I am talking about the new school of thought that if a kid has decided that CAT is KAT they are happy with that. as long as they are doing the work. Spelling isnt as important as the other and they fiqure it will come with age. which is NOT the correct way- But I dont know the reasons for it, Its not my kids former school, its a friends kids school.

and honestly, I cant spell. I made a living writing briefs and business letters, etc. but, spell check was my friend. It seriously has something to do with the way I am wired. I know I cant do it, and used to care. LOL My husband on the other hand can spell words he has never heard before. Sucks for me, and aggervates people who can spell to no end, but short of me spending all day with a dictionary, I cant fix it. icon_smile.gif

I prefer that things be spelled right, that punctuation be correct, and you use the correct words. of course there are a few rules I cant always remember the WHOLE rule on... like the I before E except in budweiser... that one has quite a few exceptions...

I agree with doing it right, I dont think you should change the rules because its easier or mainstream. But, then again, if that didnt happen, we would still be using 'thy' and 'hath' icon_smile.gif


BUT we did fix it. Called the orderer (client, friend, person who asked for the cake... since Orderer was just me being funny)- She said "his name is Desmond, we just call him Des, and depending on who spells it, some call him "Dez" so we put the apostrophe S.

right or wrong, its on there. LOL

joenshan Posted 2 May 2010 , 5:59pm
post #15 of 26

I'm a grammer freak. It's Des's. I know it looks weird, but its the possessive of Des. It woulds be no different than saying Tom's 18th, just happens to ends in s. Putting the apostrophe at the end would only be in the case of a plural possessive pronoun that end in s. For instance, the last name Woods. If you wanted to say the car belonged to the Woods family, it would be the Woods' car.

Hope that helps.

Ruth0209 Posted 2 May 2010 , 6:18pm
post #16 of 26

One more time. It's GRAMMAR. It's not grammer with an e.

chellescountrycakes Posted 2 May 2010 , 6:33pm
post #17 of 26

I am soooo sorry, I didnt see alot of the previous posts before I posted a second or third time. I missed the spelling lesson.

guitargirl Posted 2 May 2010 , 6:34pm
post #18 of 26

Hi! I'm a third grade teacher and I just wanted to explain the thinking behind invented spelling. Basically, the idea is if we limit kids to ONLY using the words they know how to spell in their writing, it can really limit their vocabulary. My students can all spell the word "good", but most can't spell words like excellent or delicious. Allowing them to make their best guess at how those words are spelled lets them make their writing more interesting. Now, I would agree that if I didn't ALSO teach spelling, their spelling skills would never improve, but I haven't really heard of a school around me that didn't also teach kids how to spell, or at least how to find out how a word is spelled. One of the ways I do that is on writing where we are making a final draft to share, I help the students either figure out the correct spelling or look it up. I hope that helps explain why some schools do that.

Ruth0209 Posted 2 May 2010 , 6:52pm
post #19 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitargirl

Hi! I'm a third grade teacher and I just wanted to explain the thinking behind invented spelling. Basically, the idea is if we limit kids to ONLY using the words they know how to spell in their writing, it can really limit their vocabulary. My students can all spell the word "good", but most can't spell words like excellent or delicious. Allowing them to make their best guess at how those words are spelled lets them make their writing more interesting. Now, I would agree that if I didn't ALSO teach spelling, their spelling skills would never improve, but I haven't really heard of a school around me that didn't also teach kids how to spell, or at least how to find out how a word is spelled. One of the ways I do that is on writing where we are making a final draft to share, I help the students either figure out the correct spelling or look it up. I hope that helps explain why some schools do that.




I think that approach makes good sense with young writers. When kids get to junior and senior high school, I do think their teachers don't do them any favors by not scoring them, in part, on their spelling. It is, after all, part of their overall ability to communicate. Trust me, their employers WILL judge them based on their spelling. When I pre-screen applications, I immediately screen out those with terrible spelling and/or grammar. I understand that people have learning disabilities that cause them difficulties with spelling, but if you know that, have a friend proofread your resume. Otherwise, it just makes you look like you don't care about doing good quality work.

Ruth0209 Posted 2 May 2010 , 6:57pm
post #20 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by chellebyerly

... I agree with doing it right, I dont think you should change the rules because its easier or mainstream. But, then again, if that didnt happen, we would still be using 'thy' and 'hath' icon_smile.gif ...




Ha! That's what my husband says, too! I have to admit, thy opinion is true on that point. I hath no good comeback for it icon_razz.gif

indydebi Posted 2 May 2010 , 7:04pm
post #21 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by joenshan

I'm a grammer freak. It's Des's. I know it looks weird, but its the possessive of Des. It woulds be no different than saying Tom's 18th, just happens to ends in s. Putting the apostrophe at the end would only be in the case of a plural possessive pronoun that end in s. For instance, the last name Woods. If you wanted to say the car belonged to the Woods family, it would be the Woods' car.

Hope that helps.


bingo. It's only confusing becuase it ends in "S". Think logically .... Substitute any other name and how would you do it? (i.e. the "tom" example.) Althought I conceed not all things grammar are "logical"! icon_lol.gif

Good explanation, joenshan! thumbs_up.gif

Doug Posted 2 May 2010 , 9:09pm
post #22 of 26

Re: grammar vs. grammer

easy to remember----

Gramma gets all upset when you break the rules!

CWR41 Posted 2 May 2010 , 10:16pm
post #23 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawncr

Tried to find a good summary. These are OK, but not great:

http://www.editpros.com/news0405.html




According to the link above, the agreement is:
Plural for names ending in "s"
The AP and Chicago stylebooks are in agreement here; to form plurals of common nouns as well as proper names ending in "ch," "s," "sh," "ss," "x" and "z," add "es". Examples:
"the Martinezes" and "the Williamses".

Plural possessive for names ending in 's'
The AP and Chicago manuals agree that the plural possessive of proper nouns ending in "s" is formed by adding only an apostrophe to the plural form. The Chicago manual shows these examples:
"The Rosses' and the Williamses' lands" and "the Joneses' reputation".

Therefore, in the following quote:
"If you wanted to say the car belonged to the Woods family, it would be the Woods' car.",
it would actually be the Woodses' car.
(even though that looks strange!)

Additionally, if the singular word ending in "s" forms an extra syllable for pronunciation as in boss's or bus's, it would be 's instead of s'. If it's the plural form as in bosses or buses, you'd only use the apostrophe after the word ending in "s" to show possession.

TPACakeGirl Posted 2 May 2010 , 10:37pm
post #24 of 26

I used to write for a newspaper. It's Des's. It would be Des' if there were more than one.

indydebi Posted 2 May 2010 , 10:47pm
post #25 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug

Re: grammar vs. grammer

easy to remember----

Gramma gets all upset when you break the rules!


love stuff like this!

Desert vs. Dessert: You always want 2 desserts, ergo 2 S's in "dessert".

Sheriff vs. Sherrif: As a former teacher of mine told our sheriff during his re-election campaign: "It's easy to remember how to spell it because a sheriff's job is so "iffy" (2 F's).

Principle vs. principal: The principal of your school is your PAL.

The_Sugar_Fairy Posted 2 May 2010 , 10:49pm
post #26 of 26

My Dad's an English professor and we've discussed this many times: EITHER WAY IS CORRECT; it could be Des' or Des's - it's just what you prefer. You should just ask your customer what they prefer and use that.

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