hard to tell in this pic but I too put my regular about 1/4" thick layer of bc under fondant all the time!

I didn't realize you weren't supposed to do it so I have always done it that way. I freeze the fully iced and smooth cake for about 15 minutes. and then apply the fondant.

So glad this thread is going. I'm doing my first fondant 3-D cake today and I'll use the information posted here. Thanks!!!!!

Just to clarify: If I do not re-refridgerate the cake, the fondant will droop because the room-temp icing can't hold it right?

no, I never refrigerate my cakes once they're covered in fondant.

Here is a wedding cake I did 2 weeks ago and I put a full 1/4" thick layer of icing on, froze for 15 min. (approx) until the icing was firm, sprayed water on it with my airbrush then put on the fondant and it never went back in the fridge.

I put the fondant on Friday night and the wedding wasn't until 6pm on Saturday and here is the cake........no sagging whatsoever!

rcolson, I don't know if the fondant will droop or not - I know that for many people, it does not droop; but I don't know how much icing they use, nor what the "breaking point" is. I think at that point it just becomes a possible risk, but not a guaranteed problem. You can always give it a try on a test cake to see what happens - I am sure a lot of that has to do with your icing and how firm it is. I would still chill the cake before fondanting if you can do it. Or, use ganache. You don't even have to chill that, you just wait till it firms up on its own.

I use satin ice fondant and the fondant itself firms up nicely after a couple hours, so maybe that keeps it from sagging?

Okay! Wow! I've been putting a crumb coat under my fondant cakes (which are few & far btw). I've been afraid of sag, air bubbles, etc. I'm actually going to try ganache under fondant for the 1st time b/c I want another option to try to talk people into fondant cakes (ha-ha). Not everyone will want to pay extra for the choc, however.
I'm going to try applying a thicker layer of bc on a practice cake. You really don't have to put it in the fridge after the fondant is on to prevent sagging?! My BC recipe is sugarshack's with 1 stick butter to sub 1/2 cup of high ratio shortening.

I believe KHalstead - look at that cake, it's living proof! And honestly I have seen many, many people here post that they refrigerate to firm the icing, but not after fondanting. So go with what they tell you! I refrigerate anyway so I just have to stick with what little I know

hey if I had the room to refrigerate afterwards I would!!!! I think if you've got the option go for it.....otherwise don't freak out if you can't, because it can be done without refrigerating.

Thank you so much for all your useful comments.

I have a question regarding this thread. Does the fondant brand make a difference? We are limited here in the UK the last time I tried the crumb coat the fondant started to ripple. Could anyone suggest a good plain old fashioned butter cream?

I use a full coat (or mostly full coat) under all my fondant cakes. It allows me to roll my fondant extremely thin (1/8" or less). The clients are very happy with the icing and that the fondant isn't chewy because it's so thin.

My daughter want better cream icing under the fondant , can I do this same way. I never worked with fondant before. Please help

ceshell, I know this post is old, but I hope you are still watching it. I want to use your method and want to make sure I have the steps down right, as I've been reading for hours and everything's getting all mixed up in my head. Here's what I plan to do.

Bake and cool cake, wrap and freeze. Unwrap, torte, stack, and crumb coat. Let sit until thawed and cakes have time to rest and settle. Do final butter cream coat, refrigerate until firm (how long?), place and smooth fondant, then refrigerate again until needed, or at least over night?

Does that sound like a plan that will give me success? Also, do you wrap your cakes while in the refrigerator or do anything to protect them while in there? thanks so much!

Hi there! Fortunately I get email notifications so it's impossible not to watch the thread .

Here's my 2c on your plan - yes, it's fine! Now mind you, the wrap+freeze portion of your process is totally up to you. I only do that when I have a recipe (Scott Clark Woolley choc cake) that calls for it. It has nothing to do with the possible success or failure rate of fondanting your cake and is by no means needed unless that's just the way you personally do cakes.

I would definitely let the cake settle after filling and crumb coating or even doing final bc coat. I did a cake last night, after I put the final BC on I let it settle on the counter for several hours. Often I use perishable fillings so if sitting out isn't an option, I press down lightly on them. I think Leah S. uses a big heavy tile to do this part. Either way you want to make sure the cakes are settled, whether through time or by force .

Refrigerate til firm - well that depends on what kind of icing you are using and how cold your fridge is. Maybe it will be firm in an hour, maybe two, maybe 30 min? I think an hour normally would suffice.

I get the fondant ready and only take the cake out of the fridge when I'm ready to fondant the cake, as it is so much easier to fondant when it's firm, for me. Of course that is my theory for using a thick layer of frosting anyway. If it's thick but room temp it will be very hard to keep the bc cooperating.

Ideally (for me) I'd fridge again for at least several hours, to give the fondant time to dry out in your fridge, and "set." The longer the better, if you used a lot of icing underneath.

I am fortunate enough to have a spare fridge so I don't need to protect the cakes in there. The icing and fondant protect them from drying out and I don't keep anything in there that can transmit smell/flavor. I would advise against wrapping in plastic (even a plastic wrapped box) simply because you want air to circulate around the fondant. Moisture locked in w/fondant=disaster! You can use a box if you need to protect it in the fridge though, since air can pass through.

Good luck and post again to let us know how it worked out!

[quote="ceshell"]I would definitely let the cake settle after filling and crumb coating or even doing final bc coat. I did a cake last night, after I put the final BC on I let it settle on the counter for several hours. Often I use perishable fillings so if sitting out isn't an option, I press down lightly on them. I think Leah S. uses a big heavy tile to do this part. Either way you want to make sure the cakes are settled, whether through time or by force .

I get the fondant ready and only take the cake out of the fridge when I'm ready to fondant the cake, as it is so much easier to fondant when it's firm, for me. Of course that is my theory for using a thick layer of frosting anyway. If it's thick but room temp it will be very hard to keep the bc cooperating.


Hi there,

I wanted to know if you think that a caramel buttercream using DDC (not sure if homemade or storebought) is pershible? Also after you have decorated you cak you put it back in the fridge priorto delivery? How long would it take for the BC to come to a good eating consistency? (when it's tm to cut the cake)... THe cake I am making is for my daughter's birthday, so I am the one cutting and serving.

Thanks!

I posted this under the wrong thread so I am adding it here - It is really helpful to see the innards of everyones cakes
I don't have great luck if my fondant is too thin. I used Toba's fondant recipe mixed with candy clay. The buttercream is Cake Bible Moussiline on the outside and Neo Classic between the layers, it was very soft so I used it as filling with Icing Fruits.
I chill before fondant to firm up the icing or ganache and place back in the fridge after fondant. I take it out an hour or so before it is needed so the condensation can evaporate.

[/url http://cakecentral.com/modules.php?name=gallery&file=displayimage&pid=1845720&sub=1845725[url][/url]

I'm doing the girly ghost tomorrow for Halloween with pumpkin spice cake and the crusting cream cheese icing listed on CC, the icing is really soft out of the frig so I'm going to put the cake in the frig after icing and then after the fondant, the black for the eyes and mouth won't "bleed" or anything will it?

can i just ask a stupid question. by perishable filling do u guys mean its filled with buttercream??

Perishable fillings are fillings that are milk based or anything that can spoil outside of fridge..custards, and some fruit fillings like fresh fruit are examples.

Ceshell..thanks for all of your input, this is awesome to learn. I'm going to do this technique next time I work with fondant. I also didn't know you could mix fondants with MMF..I use MMF due to finances(cheap to make) but use satin ice sometimes..so now I can mix it and be pleased.

Thank you, thank you!

jenscreativity. dose fruit jams fall under that category??? i have never used jams

no..fruit jam is non-perishable. It should be fine out without refridgeration.

DDL? I"m sorry,,I'm not sure what that means..

thanks jen, i was`t sure if jams,and preserves would spoil

[quote="toni1218"]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceshell

Hi there,

I wanted to know if you think that a caramel buttercream using DDC (not sure if homemade or storebought) is pershible? Also after you have decorated you cak you put it back in the fridge priorto delivery? How long would it take for the BC to come to a good eating consistency? (when it's tm to cut the cake)... THe cake I am making is for my daughter's birthday, so I am the one cutting and serving.

Thanks!

I am not sure what DDC or DDL is? Generally a regular buttercream (powdered sugar and butter, w/or w/o shortening too) is not considered perishable. Milk is often added to get it to the right consistency, but not in an amount that renders the icing perishable. There is a whole science to that but I don't know too much about it...it has to do with fat-to-sugar ratio.

Perishable, to continue to answer another question (which has already been answered!) means pretty simply "goes bad" w/o refrigeration. It also has to do with time though. I mean, a glass of milk is perishable, but it's not going to go bad if you drink it over the course of an hour with your breakfast. But it can't sit out overnight. Salted butter is far less perishable, it can stay on the counter for a few days. Cream cheese - perishable. I'm talking about the straight product, not in cakes - just using these as extreme examples.

Jams, well these are not urgently perishable (you can carry that PB&J sandwich all day and eat it for dinner, whereas the sandwich w/freshly carved turkey leftovers can't sit out all day and still be edible) but jams ARE refrigerated after opening, because they will start to grow mold eventually.

As for jam as a filling in your cake, of course it won't go rotten in four or eight or 24 hours but if that's sitting on your counter for four days I'd be willing to bet that bacteria would be growing in it. Not enough fat-to-sugar ratio, unlike when it's mixed in to icing (meaning, a buttercream flavored with jam has a longer shelf life than straight-up jam in your cake). I don't know what the time window is on jam fillings making your cake moldy if unrefrigerated.

As for caramel, if I made buttercream (American style or smbc) and mixed in caramel to get caramel buttercream, I wouldn't worry about refrigerating it. What is DDL...& is the caramel itself something you'd keep in the fridge, or not? Usually I don't think of caramel as something you have to refrigerate.

I put a "normal" layer of BC under my fondant cakes alllll the time. I too, like that creamy icing when I bite into a piece of cake. Just my opinion.... I put a THIN layer of my semi-homemade white chocolate fondant over that. People LOVE it.

Jennifer

About the jam..I have left jam out in the open, NOT refridgerated for weeks and it was fine...no mold created..so you may refridgerate it if you want or not want to. As long as your kitchen or where cake is hanging out,,it's not muggy or hot, it will fine out of fridge.

Caramel should be fine NOT refridgerated also.