A Normal Layer Of Icing Under Fondant: Yes You Can!

Decorating By ceshell Updated 13 Jun 2015 , 12:44pm by kamill

ceshell Posted 18 Mar 2010 , 12:19am
post #1 of 86

Hi everyone! I see this topic brought up from time to time, about how people hate to fondant their cakes because most guests like to eat normal buttercream-type icing and you "can't" put a normal coat of icing under fondant.

Then I see plenty of CCers say "YES you can! I do it all of the time!"

But you know what I don't see often? Pics of the cut cake showing just how much you can put under there. I am guilty of this myself - I have attended all but one party where I served my own cakes...and I never take pics! However, for the last two cakes, I got pics...then I noticed I'd also taken a pic of the inside of a cake from last year.

All of these cakes were iced in Italian Meringue Buttercream and chilled rock-hard before applying fondant. And you know what, all of them were refrigerated AFTER fondanting, with no ill effects. I use Michele Foster's recipe. The two chocolate cakes had healthy-sized fillings of Rich's Bettercreme and the yellow (actually it's banana) cake was filled with a mango puree (note the dam!)

So now, for your living proof, please enjoy these views of "the icing under the fondant." Cue the music.... icon_smile.gif

85 replies
Mug-a-Bug Posted 18 Mar 2010 , 12:33am
post #2 of 86

icon_surprised.gificon_surprised.gificon_surprised.gif I'm kind of a fondant newbie and I HATE that all my cake imperfections show through the fondant. So I really can put lots of icing then fondant?? Hmmmm. icon_confused.gif Thanks for posting this thumbs_up.gif

cakefairy03 Posted 18 Mar 2010 , 12:35am
post #3 of 86

Very impressive! Do you think this could work for regular buttercream as well? Is it the meringue that helps it stay rock hard? Love your pics!

ceshell Posted 18 Mar 2010 , 12:46am
post #4 of 86

I have indeed done it over at least three regular BC cakes too, just last year alone, but I did not get photos of the insides of those. The Naruto cake (the blue/orange cake with the orange-clad animé guy on top) - that was iced in Whipped Cream Buttercream from the recipes section. The GnR cake was iced in Toba's Chocolate Buttercream (as was that sad little basketball I made).

The key isn't so much which kind of icing you use, but rather, making sure it is chilled solid before fondanting, and working fast (I mean, within reason...I'm slow!) to get it smoothed out before the icing has time to soften up.

Then, as I mentioned, I DO refrigerate all of my cakes for at least several hours (I usually finish them 12-24hrs before they're due). You know what happens in the fridge? The icing hardens back up and the fondant firms up and dries out a tiny bit, essentially creating a shell around your cake. In a way, it becomes self-supporting, so that by the time you take the cake out again and let the icing soften up for eating, the fondant ain't budging.

The only thing I can't speak for is: if you fondant the cake and don't put it in the fridge afterwards. It's possible it may sag before it has time to firm up, because the icing underneath may start to succumb to the pressure. Or not - I have no idea because I just don't do it that way icon_redface.gif.

Kellbella Posted 18 Mar 2010 , 12:46am
post #5 of 86

I too slap a generous layer of BC underneath my fondant. I just make sure it's chilled really good before covering it with the fondant.

ceshell Posted 18 Mar 2010 , 12:49am
post #6 of 86

Yay! I should have titled my thread "Show your pics!" - if anyone else has pics, post them!! icon_biggrin.gif

KeltoKel Posted 18 Mar 2010 , 12:49am
post #7 of 86

Thanks, very helpful!

mamawrobin Posted 18 Mar 2010 , 3:08am
post #8 of 86

Thank you so much for this information. Glad to know this.

Kandykin Posted 5 Apr 2010 , 3:19am
post #9 of 86

I chill my cakes too (actually freeze it for a couple of hours), but I find that when the cake comes to room temperature, I get these ugly cake gas bubbles. I would love to know how I can avoid that.

JudyDP Posted 5 Apr 2010 , 4:13am
post #10 of 86

Thank you, ceshell, for going to the trouble to post pictures! That was very nice of you, and I'm sure greatly appreciated by many people.

miamorsweets Posted 5 Apr 2010 , 4:33am
post #11 of 86

This is so nice and I wish I had come across this a while ago. Of course the Wilton courses don't mention chilling at all, and I just figured it out a couple of months ago. I love how your fondant is so thin, that's how I do mine now, too, and it really convinces people to choose fondant now who wouldn't have otherwise.
And Kandykin, do you put your cake in the fridge for a while before letting it come to room temperature? If the change in temperature is too drastic, I think it can cause air bubbles.

ceshell Posted 5 Apr 2010 , 5:47am
post #12 of 86

You're all welcome. Here, I'll do you up another one. This is the cake I made for last weekend. The cake isn't in my gallery but you can still see the fondant on top, and it's kinda thick too. My point being, the fondant still did not crush the icing underneath, and the cake even still has relatively sharp edges. I had zero sagging, air bubbles, or other "too much icing under the fondant" related disasters. This time the icing was the Whipped Cream Buttercream from the recipes section (and elsewhere). I'm telling you, chilling the cake before and after fondanting is my secret weapon! I used the chocolate version of MFF, half mixed with chocolate Pettinice, and did not experience any sweating problems either.


ps I'm personally not sure about the air bubbles but I always do let my cakes settle overnight before applying fondant.

ceshell Posted 5 Apr 2010 , 5:51am
post #13 of 86

Oh and if you want to see something really absurd, look at how much icing I inadvertently had applied to one side of the cake... icon_eek.gif

11cupcakes Posted 5 Apr 2010 , 6:17am
post #14 of 86

Great pics, ceshell, like your avatar too.

Kellbella Posted 5 Apr 2010 , 10:52am
post #15 of 86

Is it wrong to want cake for breakfast now??

Caths_Cakes Posted 5 Apr 2010 , 11:10am
post #16 of 86

ive always went this way, i find it easier to get smoother fondant if i have a nice layer of filling round the sides, as long as you can get that smooth you can usually do a pretty good job with the fondant!

newbaker55 Posted 5 Apr 2010 , 11:30am
post #17 of 86

Thanks ceshell! I made a beautiful batch of MMF just to see if I could (learned the hard way to SIFT the PS icon_cry.gif ), but have never covered a cake with it. Your instructions and pics have convinced me to try. I shall go forth and fear fondant no more! icon_biggrin.gif

Kandykin Posted 5 Apr 2010 , 3:44pm
post #18 of 86
Originally Posted by miamorsweets

And Kandykin, do you put your cake in the fridge for a while before letting it come to room temperature? If the change in temperature is too drastic, I think it can cause air bubbles.

Aah... that could be my problem. I take it right out of the freezer and plop it on my kitchen counter. I need a 2nd fridge!! icon_lol.gif

I reduced the frosting thinking that would fix it - it didn't. I'll try the slow thaw and thicker icing like I used to. Thanks OP.

sugalips Posted 5 Apr 2010 , 4:02pm
post #19 of 86

Thank you so much for the info!!! I am doing my neice's wedding cake in August (carrot cake, cream cheese icing). How do you think fondant over the cream cheese icing will work??

CakeandDazzle Posted 5 Apr 2010 , 4:24pm
post #20 of 86

I too put normal amounts of icing under fondant using SMBC.... my one problem i just found out is the after i fridge them and cover with fondant it is alot harder to cover in satin ice because it gets hard too fast... i only learned this because i did a dummy over royal (room temp) and it was a dream to cover....
anyone have any suggests about this???? its impossible to cover the cake not cold so what do i do?? maybe a different fondant???

ceshell Posted 5 Apr 2010 , 5:53pm
post #21 of 86

Fondant works just fine over most cream cheese icing recipes! If the recipe sets up like any other normal buttercream, you'll be fine. I only say that because the first time I made cc icing it was a soggy mess the moment I took it out of the fridge. I use the Crusting Cream Cheese recipe from here on CC and that one is fine under fondant. If you use Earlene's CC recipe, it is safe to sit out unrefrigerated and I'm pretty sure it works under fondant too as it is a sturdy recipe.

CakeandDazzle, you might try mixing in some MMF/MFF with your Satin Ice to give it a bit more workability. I can't say for sure that that would help! But I kind of doubt other brands would perform differently, whereas homemade fondant definitely performs differently than commercial stuff. I know several people here who combine them just to extend the product but also because they feel it gives them a little more working room.

ceshell Posted 18 Apr 2010 , 6:14am
post #22 of 86

p.s. I know this thread is two weeks old, but I keep referring people to it and wanted to mention that the last cake I posted the insides of, the one with the super thick layer of Whipped Cream BC, is posted to my gallery now. NO this is not a cheap attempt to get you all to look at my cake!! I just figured it IS relevant to mention, if you want to see how the fondant held up over that mountain of icing. thumbs_up.gif

mrsc808 Posted 18 Apr 2010 , 7:15am
post #23 of 86

Wish I had found this earlier. Just cleaned the kitchen after deciding to frost and cover tomorrow. Oh well, it's just a for fun cake anyway.

kiwigal81 Posted 18 Apr 2010 , 8:25am
post #24 of 86

This is such a great thread, as a noob I always wanted to know how much was a 'regular' amount of filling or icing to put between layers and outside. Thanks heaps!! I wish there were more 'inside' pics out there!

honeyscakes Posted 18 Apr 2010 , 8:46am
post #25 of 86
Originally Posted by ceshell

p.s. I know this thread is two weeks old, but I keep referring people to it and wanted to mention that the last cake I posted the insides of, the one with the super thick layer of Whipped Cream BC, is posted to my gallery now. NO this is not a cheap attempt to get you all to look at my cake!! I just figured it IS relevant to mention, if you want to see how the fondant held up over that mountain of icing. thumbs_up.gif

YOU ROCK!!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH for this smart idea icon_smile.gif I have learnt so much.
Hey i am so glad to know I am not the only one who refrigerate fondant cakes icon_biggrin.gif
I have been looking for Whipped cream buttercream reciope...can you please send me to the right direction? ********* EDIT: found it icon_biggrin.gif http://cakecentral.com/recipes/2019/whipped-cream-buttercream-frosting ***********
Thanks ceshell for all the wonderful pictures and all the time it took for you to upload these for us!
- h

ceshell Posted 18 Apr 2010 , 11:28pm
post #26 of 86

You are most welcome! I must say, when I used to read threads where people stated that they put a normal layer of icing under their fondant...I totally doubted them. I thought, well, how much REALLY could you possibly put under there? Then when I realized that a) you CAN refrigerate fondant and b) how firm icing really gets when chilled...I realized they weren't pulling my leg icon_lol.gif and decided to try it myself. So glad I did! I never understood why the whole thing didn't collapse after the icing eventually came to room temp, until I noticed the way the fondant firmed up after it had time to sit on the cake for a while. Then I realized: the fondant is holding everything in place. Yeah!! thumbs_up.gif

Amber0508 Posted 18 Apr 2010 , 11:52pm
post #27 of 86

Thank you SO MUCH for this thread! I'm selling my first fondant-covered cake next week, and this advice is invaluable!

sweetiesbykim Posted 20 Apr 2010 , 3:46am
post #28 of 86

I also frost my cakes first with SMBC, chill really well or overnight, then fondant and re-refrigerate -no problems!

When I do get a couple air bubbles after the fondant warms up during decorating, I just poke them with straight pins and smooth out. -no big deal. I assume I get the air bubbles because my SMBC is not totally smooth underneath due to air pockets not being whipped out before frosting or I was too lazy to spread and finish it really smooth.

I just looked up the "whipped cream buttercream" recipe -a little misleading since there's no cream or butter in it. icon_smile.gif Have you ever subbed the crisco for butter in this recipe? Does the hot water dissolve the 10X so it's not so gritty?

ceshell Posted 20 Apr 2010 , 5:36am
post #29 of 86

I LOVE the WCBC made with half-shortening (to be fair, I use Hi-Ratio) and half butter. I tried it with all butter this week and it was softer than I'd have liked it to be, but I'd added ganache to it to make it chocolate so my assessment may not be valid. I think I've seen some people post that they've had success with using all butter. Regardless, there was no way on earth I could have fondanted that thing. Even though it firmed up in the fridge, it was ridiculously soft at room temp and I'm sure even the most firm fondant would have collapsed it. I'm just going on gut feeling here based on this one cake, but I wouldn't fondant a WCBC cake with ALL butter, based on my results this week. Your mileage may vary!

The hot water only goes in with the meringue powder and sugar, so no it does not dissolve the 10x. However, because the 10x portion is only half of the recipe, it really, really reduces that gritty American BC feeling. I had people at the party ask me if it was whipped cream! I thought they were nuts - but I think they were comparing it to grocery store "whipped cream frosting" which isn't really whipped cream either. It's a good compromise for those who don't care for the buttery richness of MBC's. The guest of honor, who loves PS frostings, LOVED it and even commented on how light and fluffy it tasted. I do recommend trying it, but don't be afraid to use HALF butter because a) it's a natural ingredient icon_biggrin.gif and tastes better and b) then maybe you won't feel so guilty calling it buttercream LOL

sweetiesbykim Posted 20 Apr 2010 , 2:21pm
post #30 of 86

Thanks so much, ceshell! I'll have to find some hi-ratio now. This might be good for a lactose intolerant order, or someone that wants the more familiar flavor of and American BC. I still LOVE my SMBC (not as butter-laden as lots of cooked BC's), but always good to have an alternative that's really good icon_smile.gif Thanks again!

Quote by @%username% on %date%