Business Idea, Is It Possible?

Business By Stitches Updated 17 Mar 2010 , 1:59pm by Stitches

bakers2 Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
bakers2 Posted 15 Mar 2010 , 5:20pm
post #31 of 48

am I being obtuse? how is this different from making a custom cake? You make the cake - fill it - frost it - have decorations available for the person to 'customize' the cake - perhaps a more limited selection and pre-made - you put the decorations on the cake and send it out the door.... seems like a pretty standard cake decorating business to me - perhaps I'm not understanding where the potential savings is for the customer or the profit margin is for you....I think it's a great idea - the costomizable cake with the last minute convenience of the grocery store but they way I see it is that you are still making a custom cake - for the goofball that forgot to order thier custom cake in time - but with convenience comes waste - if I do cakes per order I don't incur the same waste as having products that have a shelf-life - so in acuality you should charge more than the custom cake to cover the costs of waste....
perhaps I'm not seeing the whole picture?

Stitches Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
Stitches Posted 15 Mar 2010 , 7:36pm
post #32 of 48

All pre-made items (some purchased, some made in house). Great decorators are hard to find, keep and afford. But with my idea, I don't need skilled workers. Designing / decorating a cake is what takes cake decorators the most time. It's really really hard to come-up with original ideas all day everyday and to be good at every skill. I want to stream line the creative process and make it simpler!!

At a classic bakery, if you increase your volume of sales, you need more highly skilled decorators to hand touch each cake. If you tell each decorator to make a teddy bear and a bow on a cake, each will look different......some good.......some bad. I've heard friends complain that even when they buy a cake from the same shop, one cake looks great and the next cake looks like a child decorated it. Lack of consistency kills all businesses.......people don't have money to risk. They want a sure thing when they buy something.

Making cakes to order has more waste and takes longer, then my idea. It's cheaper to bake 5 cakes at the same time then it is to bake 1 cake at a time. It's cheaper to buy everything when you buy in volume. You get more work out of employees at a busy shop then you do out of a slow shop (there's some law a physics in that comment... Busy people get more done at work and home then do non-busy people).

I hope that made sense? I think I see what your thinking bakers2...........it is terribly similar to making custom cakes. I'm trying to make custom cakes more approachable/understandable to the client and more stream lined and profitable to the cake shop.

icingimages Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
icingimages Posted 16 Mar 2010 , 1:58am
post #33 of 48

10 plus years ago, I went to try and find someone to print an edible picture. It was very difficult to find, so I started Icing Images part time out of my house. Now 10 years later, I own a thriving business that employees several people and helps them earn a living for their family. When I moved my business out of my home, I was able to choose where to put the business and placed it next to all my employees and my childrens school so they can come there after school making working easy. (if you call after 3:30, you may here several of them as there can be up to 9 kids and 11 if the little ones come) I am able to tithe well to the church, I earn decent money, my business inspires teens at my childrens school. I have made endless friends, I have made endless memories for all my customers and every one that was around in the begining is still shaking their heads as to how successful this is. But...none of this could not have been done without the grace of God and the willingness to ask questions when I didnt know an answer and pray heavily when something doesnt feel right. I just try to glofiy God first, and then take care of my family, employees and customers and things go really well. You know the answer to what you are asking us. Plan smart!

Stitches Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
Stitches Posted 16 Mar 2010 , 1:09pm
post #34 of 48

wow icingimages you bring tears to my eyes! What a GREAT story!!! I can only dream of being lucky enough to effect people as you do in your life.

I don't think I'm smart enough to pull this off on my own. I lack confidence all around. I've tried so many times in my life and failed it's hard to keep chasing dreams...

cakesdivine Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
cakesdivine Posted 16 Mar 2010 , 1:33pm
post #35 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stitches


Making cakes to order has more waste and takes longer, then my idea.




This is not really a true statement Stitches. Have you actually ever owned a bakery? I have done both - a storefront bakery with items available for immediate sale just like your idea. And a custom cake shop where I only bake/decorate as items are ordered. The second choice has little waste because I only buy and make what I actually need for each order.

You have so much more shrink (waste) with a bake shop that has items ready to go. Edible things have an expiration date, even your gumpaste items. And the health department dictates how long a products shelf life can be, not you. Therefore if an item/cake doesn't sell by the expiration date it must be trashed causing a deficit to your bottom line. Even frozen product has a set time limit as to when you have to use it by.

Yes it is less expensive in the man hour department to bake many cakes at once for freezing until needed, but many times that savings is offset by the amount of product you must toss that doesn't sell by the expiration date.

And playing devil's advocate once more...you say that you will not need very skilled decorators to assemble the premade pieces onto a cake. That is somewhat true, BUT it does take skilled decorators to make all the gumpaste and fondant figures, and decor in the first place. Of course when you are just starting out it will be you alone making those items, but what if your idea explodes and the business requires you to make hundreds of these items in a short period of time? You will then have no choice but to hire an experienced cake decorator, one who has extensive gumpaste and fondant figure exerience. Then you are right where you said you didn't need to be...hiring an expensive cake decorator to help you accomplish your business goals. Don't get me wrong, your idea has so many possibilities. But don't walk into it thinking that something you thought one way about it turns out the complete opposite and you have no idea how to handle the situation. Basically don't get caught with your pants down around your ankles when the fire alarm goes off...LOL! icon_wink.gif

scoobydid Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
scoobydid Posted 16 Mar 2010 , 1:44pm
post #36 of 48

Check out the Makery. I think they are in the Denver, Co area. Their operation has similar attributes to what you may be trying to accomplish.

cakesdivine Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
cakesdivine Posted 16 Mar 2010 , 1:44pm
post #37 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stitches

I don't think I'm smart enough to pull this off on my own. I lack confidence all around. I've tried so many times in my life and failed it's hard to keep chasing dreams...




This is the first thing you need to address! You have a wonderful idea that can be extremely profitable to you. Don't let self doubt take it away from you!

You have taken the very first step in the right direction by asking the questions you are asking and getting advise from your industry peers. This is just step one. No one said you had to do this overnight or even in the next month...Take your time, explore all options, address all issues potential and present one at a time! I know from experience that sometimes you get so excited about an idea that you jump right in before really doing all the homework. Then that causes all the struggle and stress that could be avoided. Map it out. Always plan to be a success so you can handle a fast growth just in case that does come to pass. People don't plan to fail they just fail to plan which leads to them failing. Don't rush the process. The more knowledgeble you become about your business idea and the direction you want to take it, the more successful you will be from it. icon_smile.gif

Stitches Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
Stitches Posted 16 Mar 2010 , 2:15pm
post #38 of 48

My Mother had a bakery when I was growing up. It failed and I saw nothing but negatives about bakeries. Since then I have far exceeded her knowledge and skill level. She had very little experience before opening her bakery. She was a home decorator that opened a store.

I have worked briefly at two bakeries and one grocery store in my life.

Other then that, I worked for 10 years as a professional artist (that's what I went to college for). I have over 20 years of experience being a professional pastry chef working in country clubs. I personally turn out huge numbers of volume baked goods, while multi tasking. I prep in a basement kitchen and bake in a kitchen upstairs, so I'm highly organized. I've reached the point where I have many, many recipes perfected. I'm highly skilled in chocolate work and cake decorating. I know how to produce in serious volume and train assistants. I know a lot about the food industry from companies to buy from, to all the sales rep.s and chefs in a wide area (I'm in the Chicago burbs). I've met with brides for years making and selling wedding cakes and specialty cakes at my job. I've owned 2 business before. One business I was a partner in my Mothers catering business and I owned a art business where I marketed and sold my work nationally.

But I've never owned my own bakery. So I do not have that knowledge! That is why I'm here asking your advice.

I understand and I am certified in sanitation. In country clubs even though we date and label everything in the coolers and freezers. The health dept. doesn't make us throw out anything in the freezer ever (we do so, to protect our quality). I worked with carts full of chocolate garnishes and purchased gum paste items, they never looked at or questioned a sell by date.

Does the health dept. in your area make you throw out decorations?

In my experience, where I have the most waste both in product and time is doing things in small volumes.........and selling too many different kinds of products.

I truly don't understand your points cakesdivine, that's why I'm here asking for your opinion and help. I do understand your trying to avoid waste by making one thing at a time........but don't you see how it costs you more to do that? That's what I'm trying to avoid, I don't want to be totally custom making one cake at a time. I know I can't make money doing that in my area.

HEY, you stuck in a post while I was writing this monstrous post. I'm confused cakesdivine.............do you think this is a good idea or not? Are you just playing devils advocate? If so..........THANK-YOU! I need to see all the angles so I'm not caught with my pants down, LOL!!

endymion Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
endymion Posted 16 Mar 2010 , 2:29pm
post #39 of 48

Have you seen the web sites of custom t-shirt design places (like Custom Ink, for example) that let you design your own t-shirts online?

It would be neat (but maybe expensive; don't know) to let them really design their own "blank" cake (drag and drop items to specific locations, choose colors and instantly see the color appear on the blank cake).

cakesdivine Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
cakesdivine Posted 16 Mar 2010 , 3:46pm
post #40 of 48

I was a grocery store bakery manager for 3 years, have owned 2 walk-in bakeries (one in Houston, one where I live now, that was part of my mom's restaurant that we had to close due to plumbing issues that the landlord refused to resolve), all three of those had waste costs in product having to be tossed due to the expiration date. And yes if you have any food product on shelves that is out of date you will have to toss it. Granted sugar decor and gumpaste decor has a really long shelf life, but there still is the potential of having to toss the item(s). For me personally I have an issue with throwing out product. To me and my bottom line that is something I can completely control, and eliminate by not having a walk-in business, and my biz being a custom, to order shop only.

As far as doing things in volume, it only saves money in the man hours, so If I am a one woman show it does not make sense to volume bake in the hopes a cake will sell. I still buy in bulk for my shortening, flavorings, food colors, and fondant, because those items do have a longer shelf life, but I also know that with my current volume of orders it will be used, and not scrapped. For my perishables it does not make sense to buy in volume because I will have to toss it at some point, thus negating any savings I made by purchasing it in volume (get my drift). Everyone knows I am the queen of freezing cakes, and I highly recommend the practice, BUT I certainly don't bake a bunch of cakes in hopes someone will need them, just to be able to bake a bunch of cakes in one fell swoop either. Why? Because for my own quality purposes, I refuse to allow a cake to stay in my freezer for sale longer than 2 weeks. Don't want to have to throw out a particular cake because no one ordered that cake flavor/size within my 2 week limit. Yes the HD says I can keep it in the freezer to use for 30 days, but honestly I personally don't want my product sitting for that long in the freezer.

NOW I do think your idea is a great one. You will have to have a walk-in shop for it to work, and you will have waste of product that doesn't sell; that is a given. So you need to make sure that you price the product well enough that the "toss cost" is covered. If baking in volume works for you and you don't plan on tossing any frozen cakes that is your perogative. And it will depend on how anal your HD inspector is. Some just only care about the visual cleanliness and temp control others want every "i" dotted and every "t" crossed so they will check dates in your refrigerator/walk-in and your freezer. If something isn't dated or it is expired they will require you to toss it. I have no clue what your HD person is like, but in business it is always best to plan for the worst case scenario and be prepared for the worst. If it doesn't come to pass then you are ahead of the game and all is good icon_smile.gif

Stitches Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
Stitches Posted 16 Mar 2010 , 4:29pm
post #41 of 48

Thank-you cakesdivine!!!!!!!!! I really DO appreciate your time and knowledge, sharing with me! I think I understand you better now, your last post cleared somethings up for me.

In the broader outlook on life and humanity all the waste in the food industry is mind boggling. It does seem very wrong, even more so because there are so many hungry people.

Every food business in the whole world has waste. All food businesses have to factor in waste as part of their overhead.

In the grand scope of things... baked cakes are easier to give to charities then other highly perishable foods. I wouldn't be a pig and waste food irresponsibly. And at some point I have to say to the customer "I'm sorry I'm out of that right now, how about something else." Or "if you order ahead I can assure you I'll have that size and flavor". I know I can't have everything in stock always, life doesn't work that way. I'd just do my best.

Is there a % the average bakery uses to calculate waste so they can factor that into their prices? Can waste be written off like other business expenses can? I can ask my Chef friends for more specifics........I know they work on margins and percentages a lot to balance their budgets.

cakesdivine Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
cakesdivine Posted 16 Mar 2010 , 4:40pm
post #42 of 48

Also, want to address more the baking in volume. I bake in volume on my baking day but only for the exact cake orders I have. If I bake extra cakes for the sake of baking them to have for potential future orders, all I have done is saved a little time. It will only equate to true savings monetarily of time if I actually end up selling those cakes. If I don't sell them, and I have to throw them out, then what did I save? Truth be told I would actually end up loosing money because of the ingredient cost that was thrown out.

It is worth the little extra time in the oven (because I would still have to mix the ingredients and prep the pans no matter how many I am doing at once) I know that the most I can mix at one time is 4 batches of batter or icing. To me that doesn't equate to a lot of time savings because I still have to prep every pan individually regardless of whether I am baking one batch or all 4). The oven time is only electricity costs to me, and the more cake I put in the ovens the more time it takes for them to bake. So again, the electric savings is really a wash. While the cakes are baking I use that time to make icing or make any gumpaste decor necessary so I am not sitting idle with that time. I am trying to see how you think baking as each cake is ordered would cause you more ingredient waste? The only way that could happen is if you purchased perishables in bulk, and didn't end up using them so you had to throw them out. A smart business person doesn't buy more product than they need, because they would know that if it wasn't used, you would loose money by tossing ingredients. If you are just talking time my previous example shows why for a custom, open by appointment only, with low to mid volume cake shop, bulk baking is not an economical saver.

Hey you too slipped in a post while I was typing a monstrosity post...LOL! icon_lol.gif

geri4292adams Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
geri4292adams Posted 16 Mar 2010 , 4:44pm
post #43 of 48

I've been decorating for only a couple of years now. I've been selling my cakes for a very minimal fee and have made little money. I've since started to up the price and to my amazement, people are still wanting them. LOL Anyways, I've been thinking in my head about opening up my own shop and have thrown many different ideas around and one of them was very very similar to this one. I think it could be possible to open up something like this, but at the same time it may be hard to make it profitable unless you had the right location and the right customers. I think you'd need to do more research as to your profit and loss and go from there to see if this was a valid route for you to go in and still be profitable. All great ideas come from people who most think are crazy. I say do a little more research, do some praying, and then make your mind up.

Good luck on whatever you choose to do. We're all here cheering for ya. LOL

Stitches Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
Stitches Posted 16 Mar 2010 , 5:21pm
post #44 of 48

I love having you all to talk to and bounce ideas off!!

I don't really know how to answer your question well cakesdivine.

Trying againicon_smile.gif

Between having frozen cakes I also have my premixed batters on hand so I can produce anything as quickly as possible. I can't predict my future sales exactly, but I can predict (for example) on average I'll go threw 3 batches of chocolate cake per week and 2 yellow cake, and 10 carrot cake batches. I can predict that around holidays and weekends sales can be brisker. Plus I try to keep a consistent amount of cake flavors and sizes in my freezer always because I don't want to loose any last minute sales (which I'm hoping to steal from bakeries that can't handle last minute cake orders and the future sales that might get me from a happy customer).

I guess it does only save me time and product cost, working in bulk. Time is money, it's the biggest profit stealer a hands on business has.

As I risk having wasted product you risk missing opportunities. You have to balance that all out, with what kind of business you want/or have.

stampinron Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
stampinron Posted 17 Mar 2010 , 2:35am
post #45 of 48

http://www.gailwatsoncake.com/cake.html

I just ran across this site that sells cake "kits"

shorty56 Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
shorty56 Posted 17 Mar 2010 , 2:59am
post #46 of 48

just another thought here.

you seem to be assuming that having a custom cake biz automatically means you will be baking in small volume. if you're doing it right, then you're baking in large volume just like a walk in biz, the only difference is that every cake baked has already been paid for. for example, i do only custom cakes (usually weddings) so everything is paid 2 weeks in advance. i bake approx 800-1000 servings of cake once a week every week. its quite a large volume (i don't have any employees, so i do it all by myself) adn i bake them at once. saves me time, saves me in ingredient costs. its almost zero waste, and everything is paid for before i even turn the oven on.

like the others have said, with your idea you have to have a lot of walk in traffic to make it worth while, and even then you'll have a lot of waste. so custom cake shop, you could do the exact same volume, but actually get paid for every cake you make instead of just hoping it sells.

my advice is to do both. have the custom orders to keep steady income and then offer these off the shelf walk in orders as a supplement.

khufstetler Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
khufstetler Posted 17 Mar 2010 , 4:05am
post #47 of 48

I was just watching 'unwrapped' on foodnetwork and saw this place. I immediately thought of this post.

wow.... ironic - 'they bake you make'

http://www.themakery.com/YouMake.php

Stitches Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
Stitches Posted 17 Mar 2010 , 1:59pm
post #48 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stitches


Then for those people who want custom work at what it costs for a cake artist to design and decorate a cake, I'd have a completely custom option available.




This is all a day dream I'm trying to work out in my head. I would definitely do custom cakes as I mentioned in my first post. I'm thinking having a lot of displays with my fast cake concept would draw inquires about wedding cakes and custom novelty cakes. I'd love to do wedding cakes!!

What I'm trying to figure out is how to do all these things with a minimum of employees. I can train unskilled workers to do my fast cake concept but I can't just train someone to be a skilled cake decorator. (I see my roll as more of the business owner (this time) pitch hitting everywhere and actually spending time running the business and advertising,etc... ) I'd love to employ several decorators, in time (and a delivery driver, etc...). First I have to survive before I can grow.

The whole point is trying to figure out how to own my own cake shop and make enough money so I'm not my only employee. So I could have days off, so I could take a vacation one day or get the time off to go to the doctors, etc...

I was the "do everything employee" in my art business (meaning I had no help) and it's just too much to do everything well and sleep. That's why I began talking about my ideas. If you all think I'm crazy and I could never get away from being a small custom shop then I'm going to take your advice.

Quote by @%username% on %date%

%body%