Concerned About All These Pricing Threads....
Decorating By Deb_ Updated 25 Jan 2010 , 6:28pm by Katiebelle74
I logged on just moments ago to ask seemingly the dreaded pricing question and came across this thread (before posting). Being a newbie, I assumed "the professionals" got tired of answering the same questions over and over again. We all have to start somewhere. You want people to do their research before asking a question....don't really get that. Isn't it all part of our research. Once again, we have to start somewhere. Personally, hitting the "search" button hasn't always got me where I needed to be or hours later and wasting time I would then post my question. I AM one of those people that woke up one day and started making wedding cakes. Yes, I cook and bake quite often but going from mini loaves of banana nut bread to wedding cakes, it truly happened overnight. I've made plenty of mistakes and thanks to this site I've been able to correct them or learn to do it right the first time. There are some of us who still need to ask the "dumb" questions and don't expect to be ridiculed over it!! Maybe there needs to be a new site for "us".
Moving onto my "pricing" question. I am working with an event coordinator and have cake tastings tomorrow. I've been working on a price sheet to hand out. I DO have my price listed but the event lady thinks it's too high. I have a set price of $300 for most designs up to 100 servings, $2/serving after that (just dropped from $350). She wants me to start my range at $2.00 -$3.00/serving. There is no way I can make a wedding cake for $2.00/serving, even the most basic design. Do I just ignore her advise and price what I feel is right? How do people make a profit off of $2/serving? My total includes, delivery, consultation, sampling, etc (everything I could think of). Am I asking too much? Attached is the most recent cake I did for $350
See here's the thing....it's not a "dumb" question and nobody can tell you what to charge, you need to figure that all out for yourself.
I don't know what you pay for your ingredients, I don't know what the price market is in your area of the country and most importantly I don't know what profit margin you're comfortable with.
I CAN tell you that those are the 3 most important things you need to research to help you come up with YOUR price.
NEVER let anyone, especially an event coordinator dictate YOUR price.
If you have a tasting scheduled for tomorrow, then you better get busy researching those 3 things I mentioned above. Being prepared for a consult/tasting is very important. Be confident in your product, your abilities and most importantly your price.
Good luck!
Oh to dsilbern, I like to have fun just as much as the next gal, but when my businesses are concerned money is my priority....then we can have fun with all that money. 
SugarNSpice......I don't see anyone getting in a huff about this subject, sure there was one or two people who tried to turn this into a "drama" saga, but when we ignore them, they eventually stop posting.
I agree with you that those of us who own a business or 2 may look at this from a different angle. If I can get a few people to sit down today and seriously think about their pricing matrix, then I've accomplished something.
To me the pricing issue is a HUGE red flag and one that needs to be addressed.
You know, actually the pros on this site have inspired me to sit down and think more of the business side of things. Of course, I'm still gonna make a business off of it, but I've came down off my "sugar high" (pun intendend. ) and slowed down the process a little so I can work out the little (or big) details. I've already got the legal "go," but I haven't even started advertising yet, cuz I'm trying to make sure I have everything worked out. And even when I do, I'm sure I'll find something else I could have done.
I really don't think the issue should lead to drama anyway. I'm one of those people that welcome ANY advice, no matter if it seems a little harsh or not. Now what I do with that advice is up to me. The way I see it is I am really serious about what I've set out to do. I come here for help and advice. Now, would I rather someone baby me and sugarcoat the facts to protect my feelings, or would I rather someone tell me the truth, no matter how much I like it or not? And, JMO, but it's not really possible for someone to hurt my feelings here anyway. If someone who I know, who is standing right in front of me can't hurt my feelings, its not logical for someone online, who I don't even know hundreds of miles away to have that ability either.
People are gonna do what they wanna do. I'm a perfect example of rebelling and doing what I want, even when others might disagree. 
I have asked the pricing question myself here on this site. I DO know what my supplies cost to make the cake. Most us who are starting out don't know how to include our time into the equation, considering we are slower at completing the cake than a bakery or other cake professional. Am I supposed to charge more for the cake because it took me longer to complete because I'm still learning as I go? This is what I want help with when I ask a pricing question.
You need to know three things.
How much it cost
How much profit do I want
How much will the market bare.
Mike
Okay, before this thread gets shut down..... I just have to say.... do we REALLY have to know how much the market will "bare"...Frankly, I'm sort of embarassed by how much..... oh, wait, did you mean "bear"? Uh, nevermind....
I think that these questions get asked because most of the time everyone is so nice and helpful and the people asking truly want advice from those in the know.
I don't think I've ever asked a pricing question on here, but I'd sure hate to be one that has after reading this thread. Just when you think it's safe to ask advice from those you've come to love and respect, you are made to feel like an idiot. Yikes!
after reading this...i gotta agree with ya, because i thaught that i could trust alot of the people that have left messages in this thread due to me just recently asking about a wedding cake sizes and pricing due to me not having a bakery or doing this as a business, pretty much for friends and family and friends of the family.....but i guess i know where my question really stands in the back of everyones heads........wow i am really in shock by going through and reading this whole thing.......hmmmm
i guess what i am saying is like rvallee said we should feel safe to ask the advice and get the help from everyone, but maybe not.....i guess i do feel like an idiot. so there must be somewhere else to ask for help. 
Here's my cake for $350. 12-9-6". Chocolate cake with hazelnut filling. I thought it was worth the price. I guess that price is "high end" here in Gilbert, AZ
No, you are not overpricing this at all.
NEVER let anyone, especially an event coordinator dictate YOUR price.
Preach it, Sister!!!
ITA!
I am a former event coordinator myself. And this is how it works, or at least how I was taught.
Bride says she has a $30,000 budget.
$5,000 goes to catering, $2,000 goes to floral, $1,500 goes to the cake and so on. It's the event coordinator's job to find vendors and get the best possible price. Whatever is left, say the coordinator gets a cake for $1,000, the $500 left over doesn't go back to the bride, it goes to the coordinator. So getting a cheaper price makes them money. Like I said, thats how I was taught, and was one of the things I tried not to do, because I felt like I was being dishonest. But thats how they make their money. So stick to your price. And JMO, but that cake looks way more than $350. The only time I've heard of vendors making deals with a coordinator was when they had a business relationship with them, and then most of the time, the deal benefited the coordinator.
I've only known of coordinators gettting a flat fee or a percentage of the budget. Most people hire coordinators to save them money and I don't see how that would. The coordinators where you used to be it must have been making a killing!
Here's a bad pricing question: How much would you charge for this cake?
Here's a good pricing question: How much would you charge for this cake, it's 6 and 10", fondant with two gumpaste sprays that I made that took about four hours, pound cake with vanilla buttercream, no specialty fillings etc. I live in XXXXX.
See the difference? People who know the area can answer based on the details and their knowledge of the average pricing in the area. If you give no details, nobody can really give an educated answer, and the price ranges are going to be all over the place.
Having said that, I usually avoid these threads too, since the issue of being legal is important to me (as I said before), and if you bring that up people get all offended.
Why would this thread get shut down? I don't see any reason to close it, it hasn't gotten nasty that I can see, other than a few people assuming that generalities are being written specifically about them. If a thread got shut down because of that happening, we might as well have the entire website shut down! 
I think that these questions get asked because most of the time everyone is so nice and helpful and the people asking truly want advice from those in the know.
I don't think I've ever asked a pricing question on here, but I'd sure hate to be one that has after reading this thread. Just when you think it's safe to ask advice from those you've come to love and respect, you are made to feel like an idiot. Yikes!
after reading this...i gotta agree with ya, because i thaught that i could trust alot of the people that have left messages in this thread due to me just recently asking about a wedding cake sizes and pricing due to me not having a bakery or doing this as a business, pretty much for friends and family and friends of the family.....but i guess i know where my question really stands in the back of everyones heads........wow i am really in shock by going through and reading this whole thing.......hmmmm
i guess what i am saying is like rvallee said we should feel safe to ask the advice and get the help from everyone, but maybe not.....i guess i do feel like an idiot. so there must be somewhere else to ask for help.
Come on ladies. Does it have to be like that? I've searched a lot on the internet and, to me, this is the best place I've found to get advice about every aspect of baking and business from real world professionals. I may not agree with what everyone says, or I may not like everything I hear, but when you move into the business world, its harsh. What we read here is nothing compared to what it would be like trying to run into something blind. The first time you get a bridezilla or an unsatisfied bride, you'll be wishing you had the sometimes critical advice from the helpful professionals here.
(Edited to fix my gramatical no-no )
Thanks everyone for responding. I have to stand my ground!!
I have done some research on prices in my area and people, "professionals", do start their prices at $2/serving for buttercream and $4 for fondant. I just can't understand it. I only do this for "fun", I'm not trying to make a living off of it but i still couldn't put all that effort and most of all, time into making that amount of money. Like someone else said, since I'm still new and learning it does take me 5x as long as someone else, does it make that much difference?
Do bakery's have dozens of other changes to make up the difference? Where in America are ingredients and supplies so cheap people can afford to earn a living off their profit, at that price (and yes, I know there have been many threads about that topic....)!
Thanks everyone for responding. I have to stand my ground!!
I have done some research on prices in my area and people, "professionals", do start their prices at $2/serving for buttercream and $4 for fondant. I just can't understand it. I only do this for "fun", I'm not trying to make a living off of it but i still couldn't put all that effort and most of all, time into making that amount of money. Like someone else said, since I'm still new and learning it does take me 5x as long as someone else, does it make that much difference?
Do bakery's have dozens of other changes to make up the difference? Where in America are ingredients and supplies so cheap people can afford to earn a living off their profit, at that price (and yes, I know there have been many threads about that topic....)!
Try again jomar. I know exactly where you are and the top bakeries, the pros in your area are way above that. Why don't you give google a look see for the cake designers in your area.
Oh, and jomar...Are you talking to the coordinator to go into a "package" kind of deal with her, or is it a specific job, or are you just talking to her to let her know about you in general? If she wants to put together a package deal, is she getting a kickback from referring people to you? That isn't good.
If she wants to refer clients to you, that's great, but tell her that you need to work with the clients directly and not have her as an intermediary. I've had coordinators try to get so involved that they won't give me the client's contact information, and that isn't good. If your contract is with the bride, that's who you should be dealing with.
All of the good coordinators around here send the clients to the vendors and let the client handle meetings, contracts, etc. They don't take over the contract process. The benefit of them working with you is that they get to book their clients with you, not that you'll be paying them for the referrals of a percentage of the cake price.
I think that these questions get asked because most of the time everyone is so nice and helpful and the people asking truly want advice from those in the know.
I don't think I've ever asked a pricing question on here, but I'd sure hate to be one that has after reading this thread. Just when you think it's safe to ask advice from those you've come to love and respect, you are made to feel like an idiot. Yikes!
after reading this...i gotta agree with ya, because i thaught that i could trust alot of the people that have left messages in this thread due to me just recently asking about a wedding cake sizes and pricing due to me not having a bakery or doing this as a business, pretty much for friends and family and friends of the family.....but i guess i know where my question really stands in the back of everyones heads........wow i am really in shock by going through and reading this whole thing.......hmmmm
i guess what i am saying is like rvallee said we should feel safe to ask the advice and get the help from everyone, but maybe not.....i guess i do feel like an idiot. so there must be somewhere else to ask for help.
Come on ladies. Does it have to be like that? I've searched a lot on the internet and, to me, this is the best place I've found to get advice about every aspect of baking and business from real world professionals. I may not agree with what everyone says, or I may not like everything I hear, but when you move into the business world, its harsh. What we read here isn't nothing compare to what it would be like trying to run into something blind. The first time you get a bridezilla or an unsatisfied bride, you'll be wishing you had the sometimes critical advice from the helpful professionals here.
dont get me wrong, I LOVE THIS SITE! but when it comes to advice on pricing and so forth i totally agree with what rvallee said on feeling like an idiot and being criticized. thats the only point that i am trying to make, and like it was said before, there are things that i agree on that you are not and we all can put our opinions in and thats what we are all doing, not being nasty about anything!!!!
I've only known of coordinators gettting a flat fee or a percentage of the budget. Most people hire coordinators to save them money and I don't see how that would. The coordinators where you used to be it must have been making a killing!
LOL. Well I was taught by one person who had a very successful business in Las Vegas with a long list of vendors. She did charge a %, but the way she figured it was they set an amount of money, and that was it. The deal she made with her vendors was just that, between her and the vendors. Not saying its right, but yes she did make a killing! lol. And none of her brides complained if they knew at all. Like I said, wasn't really my thing. But hey, to each their own. lol.
I think that these questions get asked because most of the time everyone is so nice and helpful and the people asking truly want advice from those in the know.
I don't think I've ever asked a pricing question on here, but I'd sure hate to be one that has after reading this thread. Just when you think it's safe to ask advice from those you've come to love and respect, you are made to feel like an idiot. Yikes!
My thoughts, exactly I used to love coming on here for advise but lately I have to think allot before I post a question, like am I going to annoy somebody or are they going to judge me and that is a sad thing!
I've only known of coordinators gettting a flat fee or a percentage of the budget. Most people hire coordinators to save them money and I don't see how that would. The coordinators where you used to be it must have been making a killing!
LOL. Well I was taught by one person who had a very successful business in Las Vegas with a long list of vendors. She did charge a %, but the way she figured it was they set an amount of money, and that was it. The deal she made with her vendors was just that, between her and the vendors. Not saying its right, but yes she did make a killing! lol. And none of her brides complained if they knew at all. Like I said, wasn't really my thing. But hey, to each their own. lol.
WOW! I'm with you. That just sounds so dishonest.
I am completely out of the loop....I had no idea how the coordinator gets paid. I've only done 2 cakes for her. Other than meeting with the brides at the sampling I don't have any contact with them at all. I never asked and she never said. It didn't seem to be a problem to me. I never needed to discuss anything after our meeting anyway so it hadn't been an issue. I gave the brides my price, they gave me a deposit at that time, did my job and the coordinator gave me a check when I delivered the cake. I guess thats where I'm naive. Seemed pretty simple to me.
Also, I did google bakeries in my area, granted I'm not that computer saavy, most said $2/buttercream. That's why I had questioned other fees that they may add on. Maybe that's just cake and frosting?lol Fillings and decor extra.
AND the event coordinator TOLD me in the beginning that was the average price. $4 was "high-end". Was that a red flag that I just didn't see!!?
See, this is why CC is here, to inform the naive when we don't know where else to go!!
My thoughts, exactly I used to love coming on here for advise but lately I have to think allot before I post a question, like am I going to annoy somebody or are they going to judge me and that is a sad thing!
Oh come on...Who cares if you annoy someone, that's not your problem. Ask the question if you want to, and if someone's annoyed by it they don't have to answer you. Regardless of what you post SOMEBODY'S going to be annoyed by it!
I was annoyed by that mention of that stupid Bobby McFerrin song earlier, so I want this thread shut down, by the way!
LOL Why is everybody so touchy these days? Type is so hard to read tone from. I don't get where half of the anger comes from. Maybe it's a local thing like a certain phrase or wording means a totally dif thing somewhere else then it does where you are reading from...?
I have to agree with the legit thing. The is the very first thing one should be looking at. Is it legal and can I do it?
I've only done 2 cakes for her. Other than meeting with the brides at the sampling I don't have any contact with them at all. I never asked and she never said. It didn't seem to be a problem to me. I never needed to discuss anything after our meeting anyway so it hadn't been an issue. I gave the brides my price, they gave me a deposit at that time, did my job and the coordinator gave me a check when I delivered the cake. I guess thats where I'm naive. Seemed pretty simple to me.
Oh, heck no! From now on tell her that you'll need to get a signed contract from the client and that all payments need to be directly from the client, not from her when you deliver it! She's either selling her services as a one-shop deal, where she pays all the vendors so that the client doesn't need to, (which is okay) or she's charging the client more for the cake, and keeping a cut for herself.
The thing I don't like about that arrangement is the "pays when I deliver the cake" part. You should get your payment at least three weeks in advance, if not more. That allows time for the checks to clear and for you to pay for your expenses as far as ingredients go.
LMAO OK, how bout this one?
Why can't we be friends, why can't we be friends.... LOL
I've only known of coordinators gettting a flat fee or a percentage of the budget. Most people hire coordinators to save them money and I don't see how that would. The coordinators where you used to be it must have been making a killing!
LOL. Well I was taught by one person who had a very successful business in Las Vegas with a long list of vendors. She did charge a %, but the way she figured it was they set an amount of money, and that was it. The deal she made with her vendors was just that, between her and the vendors. Not saying its right, but yes she did make a killing! lol. And none of her brides complained if they knew at all. Like I said, wasn't really my thing. But hey, to each their own. lol.
elsewhere in the business world it's called a finder's fee.
standard business practice.
I pay you to find me:
a home
a client
a job
an apartment (= full month's rent minimum!)
no big whoop tho' can big a big pain in the -$$.
I've only known of coordinators gettting a flat fee or a percentage of the budget. Most people hire coordinators to save them money and I don't see how that would. The coordinators where you used to be it must have been making a killing!
LOL. Well I was taught by one person who had a very successful business in Las Vegas with a long list of vendors. She did charge a %, but the way she figured it was they set an amount of money, and that was it. The deal she made with her vendors was just that, between her and the vendors. Not saying its right, but yes she did make a killing! lol. And none of her brides complained if they knew at all. Like I said, wasn't really my thing. But hey, to each their own. lol.
elsewhere in the business world it's called a finder's fee.
standard business practice.
I pay you to find me:
a home
a client
a job
an apartment (= full month's rent minimum!)
no big whoop tho' can big a big pain in the -$$.
But it's not REALLY the same- I pay my realtor 6% to sell my house- She has to split it with the buyer's agent, and they both get 3%. That's business, and that's acceptable. What's NOT acceptable is if my house sells for $5000 above asking price and my realtor KEEPS that money. What the wedding planner in the above story is doing is SO WRONG! If I were a bride with a $30000 budget, I would EXPECT my planner to use every dime of my budget on my wedding and collect her set percentage/fee. The planner keeping the "extra" funds means I'm not getting my money's worth 
SugarNSpice......I don't see anyone getting in a huff about this subject, sure there was one or two people who tried to turn this into a "drama" saga, but when we ignore them, they eventually stop posting.
I agree with you that those of us who own a business or 2 may look at this from a different angle. If I can get a few people to sit down today and seriously think about their pricing matrix, then I've accomplished something.
To me the pricing issue is a HUGE red flag and one that needs to be addressed.
You know, actually the pros on this site have inspired me to sit down and think more of the business side of things. Of course, I'm still gonna make a business off of it, but I've came down off my "sugar high" (pun intendend.
) and slowed down the process a little so I can work out the little (or big) details. I've already got the legal "go," but I haven't even started advertising yet, cuz I'm trying to make sure I have everything worked out. And even when I do, I'm sure I'll find something else I could have done.I really don't think the issue should lead to drama anyway. I'm one of those people that welcome ANY advice, no matter if it seems a little harsh or not. Now what I do with that advice is up to me. The way I see it is I am really serious about what I've set out to do. I come here for help and advice. Now, would I rather someone baby me and sugarcoat the facts to protect my feelings, or would I rather someone tell me the truth, no matter how much I like it or not? And, JMO, but it's not really possible for someone to hurt my feelings here anyway. If someone who I know, who is standing right in front of me can't hurt my feelings, its not logical for someone online, who I don't even know hundreds of miles away to have that ability either.
People are gonna do what they wanna do. I'm a perfect example of rebelling and doing what I want, even when others might disagree.
You've got the right attitude.....It sounds like you're on the right track.....I wish you the best!
OK finally caught up reading.
To those who still feel this thread was posted because "we" are "annoyed" with the pricing questions.....I want to reiterate to you that is not the case.
The title of the thread is "Concerned" about all these pricing threads....it doesn't read "Annoyed" about all these pricing threads.
Please don't read any more into it then was intended. The word is concern.
Everyone had to start somewhere. I know for me, this was the first time I got to talk with other cake designers and was excited to learn more about it, and the business so I could finally start my own. Just because someone doesn't know how much they should charge for their first cake doesn't mean that they shouldn't be making cakes. It means that they need a little help and guidance, and what a better group to ask then others who do it for a living.
Some people on here are new at cake decorating, others are seasoned vets. Some people are very helpful, and others would rather you just go away.
I have just learned that if you are going to ask a question
a) check to see if someone has already asked it, and
b) be prepared for a few snide comments.
Chew up the hay and spit out the sticks.
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