Is There An Article Bashing Home Bakeries Or Something??????

Business By Michele01 Updated 24 Nov 2009 , 9:34am by JanH

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Callyssa Posted 23 Nov 2009 , 9:22pm
post #151 of 220

But you're also using questions asked or information posted from people like me who DO NOT sell cakes in those threads that you are using to convince people to buy from you.

My opinion, it is a shallow way to do business; you're product should sell itself if it's good enough. If it's not, then you stoop to the level of having to point out everyone else's (perceived) faults.

Scratch, doctored, box, etc. is all a matter of opinion anyway, and just because you don't deem the doctored WASC recipes worthy doesn't mean people don't have the right to enjoy what they enjoy. I would think as a professional you would have learned a better sales tactic, because what this looks like to me is a desperate car salesman........I've tried to stay out of this mess, but I have to say, using questions that I may have asked or problems I may have encountered to bolster your sales is at the very least, sad. Because, after all, I'm NOT a professional.

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Deb_ Posted 23 Nov 2009 , 9:31pm
post #152 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar

I think we're veering into the scratch vs. mix territory...Whoa! And yes, I do use that as a selling point.




It's my biggest and most successful selling point. thumbs_up.gif


That thread by the way was started by a "professional" asking for ideas for a wedding cake....it's a perfect example of business owners using these "gourmet" recipes as opposed to using genuine gourmet ingredients.

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__Jamie__ Posted 23 Nov 2009 , 9:32pm
post #153 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkelly

Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar

I think we're veering into the scratch vs. mix territory...Whoa! And yes, I do use that as a selling point.



It's my biggest and most successful selling point. thumbs_up.gif


That thread by the way was started by a "professional" asking for ideas for a wedding cake....it's a perfect example of business owners using these "gourmet" recipes as opposed to using genuine gourmet ingredients.




thumbs_up.gif

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costumeczar Posted 23 Nov 2009 , 9:34pm
post #154 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkelly

Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar

I think we're veering into the scratch vs. mix territory...Whoa! And yes, I do use that as a selling point.



It's my biggest and most successful selling point. thumbs_up.gif


That thread by the way was started by a "professional" asking for ideas for a wedding cake....it's a perfect example of business owners using these "gourmet" recipes as opposed to using genuine gourmet ingredients.




yeah, just because it says "gourmet flavor" on the coffee creamer doesn't mean it's really "gourmet."

I have to go look at the gourmet flavor thread now. Must be interesting.

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Michele01 Posted 23 Nov 2009 , 9:36pm
post #155 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Callyssa

My opinion, it is a shallow way to do business; you're product should sell itself if it's good enough. If it's not, then you stoop to the level of having to point out everyone else's (perceived) faults.




Exactly thumbs_up.gif

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Callyssa Posted 23 Nov 2009 , 9:36pm
post #156 of 220

Well, the difference between my kitchen being gourmet and not gourmet was having double ovens. Is there really a definition for 'gourmet' cake?

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__Jamie__ Posted 23 Nov 2009 , 9:41pm
post #157 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Callyssa

Well, the difference between my kitchen being gourmet and not gourmet was having double ovens. Is there really a definition for 'gourmet' cake?


Huh?

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snarkybaker Posted 23 Nov 2009 , 9:41pm
post #158 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Callyssa

Well, the difference between my kitchen being gourmet and not gourmet was having double ovens. Is there really a definition for 'gourmet' cake?




Yes..

gourmet |ˌgôrˈmā; ˌgoŏr-|
noun
a connoisseur of good food; a person with a discerning palate.
[as adj. ] of a kind or standard suitable for a gourmet : a gourmet meal.
ORIGIN early 19th cent.: French, originally meaning wine taster, influenced by gourmand .
USAGE On the distinction between gourmet and gourmand, see usage at gourmand .

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Deb_ Posted 23 Nov 2009 , 9:46pm
post #159 of 220

PLEASE don't try to change the definition of gourmet now.....we've already been through that painful discussion with the word "scratch"........... icon_rolleyes.gif

I'm fairly certain gourmet has nothing to do with double ovens..... icon_confused.gif

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Callyssa Posted 23 Nov 2009 , 9:51pm
post #160 of 220

LOL I'm not trying to change anything! I'm just saying that when we listed our home for sale the realtor told us that since we had double ovens our kitchen was considered gourmet. I wasn't being sarcastic when I asked if there even was such thing as a gourmet cake, I really didn't know. What it looks like to me by the definition that Snarky posted is that gourmet is in relation to a person, not a thing. So, I was just wondering what even constituted a gourmet, or non-gourmet cake. That's it; I'm out!

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costumeczar Posted 23 Nov 2009 , 9:52pm
post #161 of 220

Okay, after looking at that thread (the first 5 or 6 pages, I couldn't take much more, it was mostly chatter) this is my take on it.

If you're going to have a guava flavored cake, it should have real guava in it, not an imitation flavoring. For me, that's what would make it "gourmet" or not.

When people taste my strawberry cake, they say "wow, this tastes like real strawberries." I tell them "that's because I use real strawberries in the cake. Most people use artificial flavorings and I don't." I guess some people would refer to that as bashing the competition, I call it marketing to my strengths, and pointing out what I do differently. And that is how you sell a cake icon_biggrin.gif

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__Jamie__ Posted 23 Nov 2009 , 9:55pm
post #162 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar

Okay, after looking at that thread (the first 5 or 6 pages, I couldn't take much more, it was mostly chatter) this is my take on it.

If you're going to have a guava flavored cake, it should have real guava in it, not an imitation flavoring. For me, that's what would make it "gourmet" or not.

When people taste my strawberry cake, they say "wow, this tastes like real strawberries." I tell them "that's because I use real strawberries in the cake. Most people use artificial flavorings and I don't." I guess some people would refer to that as bashing the competition, I call it marketing to my strengths, and pointing out what I do differently. And that is how you sell a cake icon_biggrin.gif




Oh I am stalking you with thumbs up today, eh? Here's another one! thumbs_up.gif

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Deb_ Posted 23 Nov 2009 , 10:01pm
post #163 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar

Okay, after looking at that thread (the first 5 or 6 pages, I couldn't take much more, it was mostly chatter) this is my take on it.

If you're going to have a guava flavored cake, it should have real guava in it, not an imitation flavoring. For me, that's what would make it "gourmet" or not.

When people taste my strawberry cake, they say "wow, this tastes like real strawberries." I tell them "that's because I use real strawberries in the cake. Most people use artificial flavorings and I don't." I guess some people would refer to that as bashing the competition, I call it marketing to my strengths, and pointing out what I do differently. And that is how you sell a cake icon_biggrin.gif




thumbs_up.gifthumbs_up.gifthumbs_up.gifthumbs_up.gifthumbs_up.gifthumbs_up.gifthumbs_up.gifthumbs_up.gifthumbs_up.gifthumbs_up.gifthumbs_up.gifthumbs_up.gifthumbs_up.gifthumbs_up.gifthumbs_up.gif


It doesn't make you a "shallow business woman" because you're pointing out how you do things in comparison to your competitor.....it makes you a SMART business woman.

Oh and I completely agree with your definition of gourmet.


Callyssa....lol that's funny about the real estate thing!

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Deb_ Posted 23 Nov 2009 , 10:02pm
post #164 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by __Jamie__

Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar

Okay, after looking at that thread (the first 5 or 6 pages, I couldn't take much more, it was mostly chatter) this is my take on it.

If you're going to have a guava flavored cake, it should have real guava in it, not an imitation flavoring. For me, that's what would make it "gourmet" or not.

When people taste my strawberry cake, they say "wow, this tastes like real strawberries." I tell them "that's because I use real strawberries in the cake. Most people use artificial flavorings and I don't." I guess some people would refer to that as bashing the competition, I call it marketing to my strengths, and pointing out what I do differently. And that is how you sell a cake icon_biggrin.gif



Oh I am stalking you with thumbs up today, eh? Here's another one! thumbs_up.gif




lol I'm right there with ya! thumbs_up.gif

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ApplegumKitchen Posted 23 Nov 2009 , 10:04pm
post #165 of 220

I think THIS very question is what all the fuss is about.

GOURMET... definition

Noun 1. gourmet - a person devoted to refined sensuous enjoyment (especially good food and drink)

REFINED!!! well guess that is OPEN to perception as well - as was shown by indydebi's post ...... some people's REFINED PALATE is ONLY seen as "refined" by them!!

My opinion is that "gourmet" is used in far too many areas that is is not intended for -

Try changing to ANOTHER product for comparison (instead of cake)

Gourmet would be "bearnaise sauce made from REAL eggs and REAL butter and REAL chervil and tarragon" made by somebody who had a knowledge of the process of making it successfully.

In comparison a packet mix "bearnaise" that you just add boiling water to ... in my opinion COULD NOT be considered GOURMET .... although for some people's palates, knowledge & life experience - the packet bearnaise might be considered "their version of gourmet" - GOOD food is often "wasted" on those that do not appreciate it - they just can't tell the difference

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CakeDiva73 Posted 23 Nov 2009 , 10:05pm
post #166 of 220

Different strokes for different folks..... some of my stuff is scratchety-scratch and other stuff is Dr'd. And I don't care if people think it's not real 'vanilla' cake because I didn't use a damn vanilla bean. Whatevvvvvvver! It tastes good to me, my family and my customers. Done.

The carrot cake is scratchety scratch, no boxes or bags in that one and it tastes good too. This obsession with the box cake mixes always turns to poo in a heartbeat. Let's skip it and agree to disagree.

As for the professionalism discussed, here is what it boils down to: some people are just hardcore, cutthroat business people. They don't pull any punches, they don't let sentiment or emotion cloud their business decisions and they don't take it personally.

And let's be honest, they are probably the most successfull ones on here. I don't have a problem with it but please ~ OWN IT!!!! If you're hardcore, just OWN IT! Don't sidestep with a bunch of rationale..... admit that you will do whatever it takes to sell yourself and if it means pointing out/printing your competitors bad reviews, site comments, etc. you're going to do it.

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__Jamie__ Posted 23 Nov 2009 , 10:05pm
post #167 of 220

Hmmmmm, let's see.

"Oh, well, (sheepishly) yes, I bake from scratch, BUT please don't take that as I think it's better! Homemade fondant (nervous littl laugh), well yes, but that's no big deal. Wilton is just as good, in fact that's what so and so down the street uses. Oh, my buttercream? Oh it's just a dumpy ole SMBC recipe, nothing special there, it's just as light and delish as the other stuff, no need to think I'm special! In fact, potential customer, I don't want you to think I am any different than the others. Oh, my prices being way higher? Oh....well, ummmmm. Hmmmm. Well, nevermind to that too! In fact, what were you quoted down the street? Oh I can do it $200 cheaper!

Ugh.

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ApplegumKitchen Posted 23 Nov 2009 , 10:08pm
post #168 of 220

OOOPS - looks like whilst I was SLOWLY typing - others have sorted out the 'gourmet' thing - yep HAVE to agree thumbs_up.gifthumbs_up.gifthumbs_up.gif

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Deb_ Posted 23 Nov 2009 , 10:08pm
post #169 of 220

That's so true Applegumkitchen.

Some would actually like the package better and turn their nose to the "real" thing.

Here's the question...........Is it kosher to charge the same amount of $$$ for the package "gourmet" sauce as opposed to the "real" thing? hmmmmm interesting.

I say no since the ingredient costs and labor involved would cost more if it were made from scratch.

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snarkybaker Posted 23 Nov 2009 , 10:12pm
post #170 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkelly

That's so true Applegumkitchen.

Some would actually like the package better and turn their nose to the "real" thing.

Here's the question...........Is it kosher to charge the same amount of $$$ for the package "gourmet" sauce as opposed to the "real" thing? hmmmmm interesting.

I say no since the ingredient costs and labor involved would cost more if it were made from scratch.




It's kosher to charge whatever a customer is willing to pay. The reason for talking about mix vs. scratch etc. is the " perceived value add" of the scratch product. people think it is worth more...so uess what, it is. That is how markets work.

So my job is to add perceived value to my product while negating any benefit a copetitors product might have. That is how you drive buying decisions. And that's my job...like it or not.

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Deb_ Posted 23 Nov 2009 , 10:13pm
post #171 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by __Jamie__

Hmmmmm, let's see.

"Oh, well, (sheepishly) yes, I bake from scratch, BUT please don't take that as I think it's better! Homemade fondant (nervous littl laugh), well yes, but that's no big deal. Wilton is just as good, in fact that's what so and so down the street uses. Oh, my buttercream? Oh it's just a dumpy ole SMBC recipe, nothing special there, it's just as light and delish as the other stuff, no need to think I'm special! In fact, potential customer, I don't want you to think I am any different than the others. Oh, my prices being way higher? Oh....well, ummmmm. Hmmmm. Well, nevermind to that too! In fact, what were you quoted down the street? Oh I can do it $200 cheaper!

Ugh.




icon_lol.gificon_cry.gificon_lol.gificon_cry.gificon_lol.gificon_cry.gificon_lol.gificon_cry.gificon_lol.gificon_cry.gificon_lol.gificon_cry.gificon_lol.gif

Taken from the "How to fail in your first year of business, for Dummies" no doubt................

I don't have a problem telling my clients or anyone else that I think scratch is better.......cuz it is. thumbs_up.gif

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__Jamie__ Posted 23 Nov 2009 , 10:13pm
post #172 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApplegumKitchen

OOOPS - looks like whilst I was SLOWLY typing - others have sorted out the 'gourmet' thing - yep HAVE to agree thumbs_up.gifthumbs_up.gifthumbs_up.gif


Yeah, what a slowpoke! icon_lol.gif

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CakeMommyTX Posted 23 Nov 2009 , 10:16pm
post #173 of 220

Should'nt it only matter that the person eating the food enjoys it, gourmet or not?

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__Jamie__ Posted 23 Nov 2009 , 10:51pm
post #174 of 220

Personally, I would raise my eyebrows at something that was labeled gourmet, that come to find out had coffee creamer as one of the ingredients. But, that's just me. If I am making an apple spice cake, then I am using pureed cooked apples with fresh spices. If I'm making a banana nut cake, then mashed bananas and ground nuts are going in that cake. I'm not putting a tsp of creamer and flavoring and a dash of yellow color in a white cake mix and calling it gourmet. Not my style. I couldn't care less what anyone else does with their recipes, but using the term gourmet.....eh, a little questionable in my opinion. Again, my opinion.

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rosiecast Posted 23 Nov 2009 , 10:53pm
post #175 of 220

ok, Jamie- STOP!! You're making me hungry. Hmmm banana nut is my fave. lol

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__Jamie__ Posted 23 Nov 2009 , 10:55pm
post #176 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by __Jamie__

I couldn't care less what anyone else does with their recipes,


Oh, except the local decorators, I do have a vested interest in what they do. icon_lol.gif

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indydebi Posted 23 Nov 2009 , 11:02pm
post #177 of 220

When I started selling my cookies, people kept telling me they were gourmet and I backed away from using the term. I, too, think it's overused and many times I think things are called gourmet just so they can put a big price tag on it. icon_lol.gif

I didn't know what made a cookie 'gourmet' as compared to the cookies I was selling, which are the very same cookies I've always made for my kids. They were "mom" and "gramma" cookies .... not fancy dancy full-of-stuff-no-one-knew-what-it-was-called cookies.

People are still insisting .... I'm still resisting.

If they want to tell their friends that my "homemade" cookies are better than those gourmet ones, well that's just one more marketing tool that I'll use to my advantage!! thumbs_up.gif

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CakeDiva73 Posted 23 Nov 2009 , 11:03pm
post #178 of 220

Gourmet is an adjective.....like 'pretty', 'happy' and 'normal'.

(You get where I'm going with this)...... one persons' gourmet is another persons' crap. Just sayin'. icon_biggrin.gif

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__Jamie__ Posted 23 Nov 2009 , 11:04pm
post #179 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by CakeDiva73

Gourmet is an adjective.....like 'pretty', 'happy' and 'normal'.

(You get where I'm going with this)...... one persons' gourmet is another persons' crap. Just sayin'. icon_biggrin.gif




icon_lol.gif If my thinking that Pickled Spotted Leopard kidney is disgusting, BUT it's a gourmet treat that sells for $5,000 a microgram....then yep, gotta agree with ya there! icon_lol.gif

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tx_cupcake Posted 23 Nov 2009 , 11:05pm
post #180 of 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by snarkybaker

Quote:
Originally Posted by you_say_like_too_much

Quote:
Originally Posted by snarkybaker

If someone is selling cake, doesn't that make them a professional ?



icon_lol.gif
Way to answer my question with another question! Let the evasive maneuvers begin! icon_rolleyes.gif



Okay, rather than a question how about this ? The definition of professional is undertaken or engaged in as a means of livelihood or for gain, so as soon as you gain ie: take money for a cake you are a de facto professional, and that is certainly the case in my state. It is ABSOLUTELY FAIR GAME to compare the methods we use and compare them, without derisive adjective, to methods used by other people who take money in exchange for baked goods.




Wow. You're doing everything possible to not answer my question. I gotta give you some mad law school props for that! icon_lol.gif

Well, I'm just taking a stab in the dark here, but I'm betting that you don't disclose that many, if not all, of the bakers contributing to that thread are in fact hobbyists/non-business owners/non-pros (however you would like to describe them is moot since there is no way any of us could know who all of them are or what they do in the real world). And that, my friend, is shady.

If you want to send spies out to work for your competitors and get a hold of their super secret recipes, then print those babies out for your customers to peruse, at least you'd be comparing yourself to actual businesses and known professionals. Still shady, but at least you're comparing apples to apples.

Taking that thread and pitting hobbyist recipes against your own to make a point about home bakers and their skill set - because, let's face it, that is exactly what you're doing - is disingenuous at best and unethical at worst. thumbsdown.gif

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