Ganache Under Fondant

Decorating By BeeBoos-8599_ Updated 19 Jan 2010 , 4:40pm by FullHouse

BeeBoos-8599_ Posted 9 Nov 2009 , 4:02am
post #1 of 45

OK< I have decided to try what all of you have been talking about. This week I am making a large cake that will look like a midevil shield. It is a great chocolate cake and I have a ganache recipe that I want to ice it in. It will be spread on not poured. I am under the impression that if I put it in the fridge the ganache will get hard. I dont want that to happen. I plan to bake thursday, ice and cover with fondant friday and the party is saturday evening. Putting the fondant in the fridge does not bother me. I do it frequently. What do you all think?

44 replies
Rylan Posted 9 Nov 2009 , 4:26am
post #2 of 45

You are definitely on the right track. Good luck on the cake.

Oh and speaking of refrigerating gananche, once it gets to room temperature, it doesn't get very hard.

BeeBoos-8599_ Posted 9 Nov 2009 , 6:08pm
post #3 of 45

Rylan,
I love your new avatar photo! SO, let me make sure I am understanding you. If I put it in the fridge then pull it out the morning of the party (party is at 7 p.m.) then it will soften up enough to resemble a frosting and not a hard layer under the fondant? I know this is all pretty elementary but I dont mess with ganache much as I have a very warm body temp so every time I try to make truffles they just go to goo in my hands. One other short question. When smoothing the ganache do you just use a warm offset spatula? This cake is for a very close friend and I really want it to be yummy. Thanks for the info!

TitiaM Posted 9 Nov 2009 , 6:21pm
post #4 of 45

Just let it get hard to cover it with fondant--makes it easier, then once it warms to room temperature it will be great--should be about the consistency of truffle filling.

BeeBoos-8599_ Posted 9 Nov 2009 , 6:22pm
post #5 of 45

Thanks! That is what I needed to know. I know I had a thread regarding this in my "watched subjects" but for some reason it is no longer there.

TitiaM Posted 9 Nov 2009 , 6:29pm
post #6 of 45

to answer your other question, I pour out the ganache into a sheet pan and allow it to set a bit at room temperature--until its a nice soft icing consistency and ice and smooth it with a spatula--I use straight, but whatever your comfortable with works great. I don't bother warming my spatula, if you do, make sure it is completely dry before you try smoothing it. (Smooth it before it sets completely--don't put it in the fridge and then try to smooth it)

Rylan Posted 9 Nov 2009 , 7:12pm
post #7 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeBoos-8599_

Rylan,
I love your new avatar photo! SO, let me make sure I am understanding you. If I put it in the fridge then pull it out the morning of the party (party is at 7 p.m.) then it will soften up enough to resemble a frosting and not a hard layer under the fondant? I know this is all pretty elementary but I dont mess with ganache much as I have a very warm body temp so every time I try to make truffles they just go to goo in my hands. One other short question. When smoothing the ganache do you just use a warm offset spatula? This cake is for a very close friend and I really want it to be yummy. Thanks for the info!




Thank you, hehe. Yes, that is what I do. Since I always refrigerate my cakes (I don't trust the heat in Vegas), I let the cake come to room temperature before serving (so it isn't too hard). Keep in mind that many people say that you do not need to refrigerate your cake unless it contains any perishable fillings.

Also, before I lay my fondant, I make sure my ganache is cold hard and smooth. I find that it helps me get really sharp corners. I sometimes even forget which is a dummy and which is the actual cake.

Yes, I always use a hot spatula when smoothing the ganache.

Good luck on your cake. I'm sure it would turn great.

BeeBoos-8599_ Posted 14 Nov 2009 , 4:54am
post #8 of 45

HELP. Like I have said, I don't usually use ganache but thought I would dry it becasue there seems to be alot of talk of how wonderfully it works under fondant. WELL, I made this batch of ganache at 11 this morning and I have been patiently waiting for it to get to "spreading consistancy" I have tried leaving it in the fridge for 3 hours, even put it in the freezer still this stuff is not thickening and it is now 11 p.m. I finally poured some on the cake and the dang stuff is lumpy. The recipe specifically stated not to beat it so I stirred it untill it was smooth then let it set till room temp, covered the surface with plastic and put it in the fridge. I now have the cake with the lumpy ganache in the fridge HOPING that when I take it out in the morning that a hot offset spatula will be enough to smooth it before I put the fondant on it. In case you may want to know I used 2 packages of chocolate chips and 3 cups of heavy cream heated untill just before boiling. Any input any of you have to help would really be great. This cake will not look at all good if I cannot get a good smooth surface to lay the fondant onto. TIA.

TitiaM Posted 14 Nov 2009 , 6:14am
post #9 of 45

Too much cream--the recipe I use is about 1.25 lbs chocolate to 2 cups cream for dark chocolate. Bring the cream to a boil (usually happens all of a sudden--gotta watch it) and pour over the chips, or whatever you are using.

As for it being lumpy--I use a whisk to stir it. Its ok if you stir it fairly vigorously. You just don't want to whip a lot of air into it--if you keep the whisk in contact with the bottom of the bowl it works pretty well. Make sure the lumps are gone before you stop stirring it. (If you do get lumps it is ok to reheat it slowly and stir until the lumps are gone. HTH

Bunsen Posted 14 Nov 2009 , 6:40am
post #10 of 45

OK, here are a few basics, hopefully you will be able to pin where yours went wrong:

Use 2 parts chocolate (around 50% cocoa solids) to 1 part cream (best if you weigh them)

Bring the cream to the boil, pour over the chocolate then let it stand for 4-5 minutes for the heat to melt the chocolate. Then stir until smooth (I use a hand whisk)

Leave over night at room temperature to set, next day you can cover your cake.

Ganache doesn't need refrigerating so a finished cake can sit at room temperature for a few days without coming to any harm.

BeeBoos-8599_ Posted 14 Nov 2009 , 1:43pm
post #11 of 45

OK, sounds like my recipe was not a good one. So now what? I have this cake due tonight and I have no idea what to do with it. Do i try to smooth it the best I can then freeze it (i dont think the board will fit in my freezer) then apply the fondant and put it back in the fridge till ready to transport and hope it stays firm enough till served? As for th lumps do you think that when the rest of it is firmed up that they will not be noticable when eaten? I have a small amount left over and can beat the you know what out of it then use it to skim coat the existing layers. Please just respond if you have a damage control solution. Thanks!

wrightway777 Posted 14 Nov 2009 , 2:12pm
post #12 of 45

BeeBoos - chips...there are no cocoa solids in chips...the manufacturers use cheaper oils...try next time at least bakers chocolate instead of chips.

As far as damage control...have you tried using the hot spatula yet?

BeeBoos-8599_ Posted 14 Nov 2009 , 2:33pm
post #13 of 45

OK, I have scraped down the cake. There are still some small pieces of chaocolate in the surface of the cake but the cake has chocolate chips in it anyway so I am not going to worry about them. I am not going to try to salvage this ganache. I am going to remake a batch using TitiaM's porportions. I will not use chips this time. I hope this works because I dont have much time to gt it all done. I am also going to beat it to ensure there are no lumps. Thanks for the input.

Bunsen Posted 14 Nov 2009 , 9:41pm
post #14 of 45

Hope I'm not too late... The key to avoiding lumps is to let the hot cream sit before you stir it - if you do end up with lumps put your bowl over a pan of hot water like when you melt chocolate and melt until smooth. Lumps are only small bits of chocolate so although they don't look great they do taste ok!

As you don't have long for the ganache to set up put it into lots of small containers and put them in the freezer to set up - check every 20 mins to make sure you don't go too far.

Good luck

madgeowens Posted 14 Nov 2009 , 10:05pm
post #15 of 45

I never ever cover anything with fondant anymore without chilling it first. Makes it so much easier

CakesByAdriana Posted 14 Nov 2009 , 10:22pm
post #16 of 45

I had the same issues with the ganach not setting fast enough. I chickened out and never used it. I have it in the fridge hoping to get brave enough one day to use it.
How long does it stay good for? and Do I let it get to goom temp before I use it?
Should I pour it on or should I spread it on?
It is a smooth creamy texture no lumps?
Any help is greatly appreciated. TIA

Rylan Posted 16 Nov 2009 , 2:03am
post #17 of 45

To answer some of your questions, I posted directions on my website.

http://www.artandappetite.com/2009/11/ganache-instead-of-buttercream/

aundrea Posted 16 Nov 2009 , 2:16am
post #18 of 45

thank you for the helpful tips. i need to make a fondant covered cake next week for my daughter and really want to try gnache instead of bc. everytime i use bc under fondant its a mess!
thanks again!!!

CakesByAdriana Posted 16 Nov 2009 , 4:29am
post #19 of 45

Wow! Thanks so much I will try it. I have the white chocolate ganach already made and it is a good consistancy actually impressed for the first time. The recipe I used never said to refrigerate overnight, just to cool to room temp. I would have made it the day before.
How long does ganache stay for? I am assuming on the expiry of the cream right?
Thanks again.

Rylan Posted 16 Nov 2009 , 8:02pm
post #20 of 45

Adriana, I only leave the ganache in the fridge for 1 week or so but I'm sure it can stay longer.

I personally won't be worried if the expiration date of the cream hasn't passed yet.

CakesByAdriana Posted 16 Nov 2009 , 11:56pm
post #21 of 45

Thanks!

sugarMomma Posted 17 Nov 2009 , 12:10am
post #22 of 45

I love using ganache under fondant too, edges can get so much sharper. It does get pricey for larger cakes though.

momma28 Posted 17 Nov 2009 , 12:27am
post #23 of 45

rylan, what do you use to make the fondant stick to the ganache?

mom2twogrlz Posted 17 Nov 2009 , 12:54am
post #24 of 45

I am having a problem with my ganache too. I made it a few days ago and it has been in the fridge since. I just pulled it out, thinking I needed it at room temperature to be spreadable, well, it is still cold and runny. Can I salvage this by adding more chocolate and bringing the entire thing to melting point again over a double boiler? It would never stay on the cake, especially at room temperature.

TIA

Rylan Posted 17 Nov 2009 , 2:31am
post #25 of 45

Momma28, it may sound odd to many, but I use shortening to stick the fondant on the ganache. I just rub shortening all over the ganache covered cake and then lay my fondant.

Mom2twogrlz, did you follow the 2:1 ratio for dark and 3:1 for milk and white chocolate? I personally haven't tried completely melting the ganache and adding more chocolate but I don't think there should be a problem. Try it, it would most likely work.

wrightway777 Posted 17 Nov 2009 , 5:18am
post #26 of 45

It amazes me the recipes that should have temperature guidelines (esp dealing with chocolate) but dont. IMHO. Looks like many on this post may also find the good ole standby help of this site (take out the spaces on the link) beneficial:
http://www.b a k i n g 911.com/chocolate/ganache_truffles.htm

on this subject you will find problem solving for the ganache on that site, recipe for glazing cakes, storage, tips/hints, etc. I esp like the idea of infusing your heavy cream before adding it into the recipe.

Want to know a little more behind the science of ganache check out the sneakpeak link in Culinary Institute of Americas site (of this $65 book, Chocolates and Confections):
http://www.ciaprochef.com/fbi/books/ChocolatesAndConfections.html

heres the direct link to the sneakpeak pdf:
http://www.ciaprochef.com/fbi/books/previews/Chocolates.pdf

mom2twogrlz Posted 17 Nov 2009 , 4:12pm
post #27 of 45

Rylan - yes, I did 1:2 ratio, but I did half semi sweet chips and half milk chocolate, so I am assuming that was the problem. We'll try adding more chocolate today and see how it goes. It is just a test run for a cake I have to do tomorrow.

Rylan Posted 18 Nov 2009 , 10:20am
post #28 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2twogrlz

Rylan - yes, I did 1:2 ratio, but I did half semi sweet chips and half milk chocolate, so I am assuming that was the problem. We'll try adding more chocolate today and see how it goes. It is just a test run for a cake I have to do tomorrow.




Yes that is the problem. Milk chocolate is softer than semi sweet. If I were you, I will measure the 2:1 ratio of semi sweet and cream and then separately measure the 3:1 ratio of milk choc to cream. After the measuring both ganache mixtures, you can then combine both measured creams and chocolates.

I hope I made sense.

terrig007 Posted 18 Nov 2009 , 11:46am
post #29 of 45

This makes sense as to why I had so much problems. Thanks Rylan!

mom2twogrlz Posted 18 Nov 2009 , 5:23pm
post #30 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rylan

Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2twogrlz

Rylan - yes, I did 1:2 ratio, but I did half semi sweet chips and half milk chocolate, so I am assuming that was the problem. We'll try adding more chocolate today and see how it goes. It is just a test run for a cake I have to do tomorrow.



Yes that is the problem. Milk chocolate is softer than semi sweet. If I were you, I will measure the 2:1 ratio of semi sweet and cream and then separately measure the 3:1 ratio of milk choc to cream. After the measuring both ganache mixtures, you can then combine both measured creams and chocolates.

I hope I made sense.




Thanks so much.

Now to make a batch of white chocolate....I will use 3:1 and hope it turns out this time!!!!

You're help is really useful, I am new to the world of cake decorating, so I need all the help I can get!!!!

Quote by @%username% on %date%

%body%