Question

Business By towncrierbakery Updated 3 Nov 2009 , 5:46pm by all4cake

towncrierbakery Posted 1 Nov 2009 , 12:28am
post #1 of 65

If an employee worked for you and she decorated cakes at y our bakery and were your customers, then leaves to open her shop up at home. Does she have the legal right to post your cakes on her website. Is this a conflict of interest. Any thoughts. Would those design not belong to the owner. Curious to see what your thoughts are.

64 replies
peg818 Posted 1 Nov 2009 , 12:54am
post #2 of 65

i think if she took the pics of the cakes that she decorated then she would be okay posting them, but if she took your bakery pics off your web site and is using them as her own (even if she decorated the cakes) she is in the wrong.

I would be interested to see what others think of this.

Lita829 Posted 1 Nov 2009 , 12:56am
post #3 of 65

Hmmm.....that's a sicky situation icon_confused.gif . I don't own a bakery or even work at one (I work from home) but I think that it would be a conflict of interest to post the cakes that were designed by a company she once worked for....even if she did the decorating. If she received permission from the company, then sure. But if not...I wouldn't risk it. JMO

towncrierbakery Posted 1 Nov 2009 , 1:02am
post #4 of 65

She did not recieve any permission from us. They were are customers. The cakes that she took and put on her website were our customers and our designs. These cakes were our on designs and created by meeting with the customers on site in our shop. I believe I have a legal right to those pictures and she should not advertise them on her business website. More feedback if can please

leah_s Posted 1 Nov 2009 , 1:03am
post #5 of 65

I used to have an employee. Imagine my surprise when I looked at his website and saw my cakes. Some he worked on, some he did not touch. He never baked anything for me, just helped with decorating. I spent a few days pretty pissed off then decided life's too short and let it go. I have plenty of business and a great rep, so I'm not being hurt.

But it IS wrong.

-K8memphis Posted 1 Nov 2009 , 1:09am
post #6 of 65

I have two pictures on my website of cakes that I made that were contracted with the bakery where I was employed. I had permission from them to take the picture.

Whoever owns the picture owns the rights to use it.

towncrierbakery Posted 1 Nov 2009 , 1:15am
post #7 of 65

That what I though that you would have to get permission from who owns the rights to that picture. I truly see it has a conflict of interest,but also a moral issue to. That is no how a true professional should start out.

costumeczar Posted 1 Nov 2009 , 1:42am
post #8 of 65

Just email her and tell her to take the pictures down because it's copyright infringement.

towncrierbakery Posted 1 Nov 2009 , 1:46am
post #9 of 65

Thank-you that what I thought to. We are to close and post on the same website for buisness to have the same pictures of our cakes.

Ruth0209 Posted 1 Nov 2009 , 2:12am
post #10 of 65

If you're going to continue to hire decorators, you should create a written agreement they sign when they're hired that states that everything they create while employed by you is your property, and that they can't use it in any way without your permission.

This is very common for all kinds of companies that create or invent things. It's referred to as intellectual property protection. Anything created "on your dime" belongs to you.

I don't know for sure, but if you and the employee did not agree to this up front (on the first day of work), you may not have that protection from a legal standpoint.

towncrierbakery Posted 1 Nov 2009 , 2:21am
post #11 of 65

good point, I am looking it at what my legal rights are. We own the rights to the pictures and the cakes were done in our shop. She worked with us a few months and within that time she was planning to open her own shop. At this point she took our pictures which are already posted on our websites and added to her new website which is a home based bakery. We are on the same venues with the same pictures.

towncrierbakery Posted 1 Nov 2009 , 2:32am
post #12 of 65

Is that also like your misleading your customer by saying that this company baked and made this cakes when in fact another bakery made them.

kricket Posted 1 Nov 2009 , 2:43am
post #13 of 65

My lawyer hubby says that she does not have the right to the photos done while she was your agent.

kakethings Posted 1 Nov 2009 , 2:44am
post #14 of 65

I am about to to get my store front and in my contract to be sign at the time of hire I want there to be no picture taking of cakes. And I don't want the customers taking photos either, they take them with their phones and take the photos to somewhere else for a cheaper price.I also want in my contract something similar to this company that demo for sam's club, they make you sign a contract if you miss a day they take $150.00 out of your check for each day. It keep you from up and quitting, I have worked as a bakery manager, I have been stuck out to many times and I want to try and cover my self with these time consuming cakes.

kakethings Posted 1 Nov 2009 , 2:51am
post #15 of 65

My friend work for this hair firm they have in their contract no taking pictures and no passing numbers. they have cameras all over the place. the manager always firing people.

towncrierbakery Posted 1 Nov 2009 , 2:54am
post #16 of 65

Thanks I really thought I was on the right track with this.

towncrierbakery Posted 1 Nov 2009 , 2:56am
post #17 of 65

I will learn from this and make sure I have a signed contract but, I am going to pursue this since I feel I have legally rights with my pictures.

towncrierbakery Posted 1 Nov 2009 , 3:02am
post #18 of 65

what is so funny that this cake decorator preached to us about copy right laws and now she has done that to us.

cakesdivine Posted 1 Nov 2009 , 3:08am
post #19 of 65

You can only own the rights to your creations photos if you paid and filed the copyrights on each photo. Just saying on your site or each photo that it is copyrighted does not make it so. If you go to court you will have to actually prove that you hold the copyright to those photos by producing the legal paperwork supporting your claim. But if she personally didn't design them and only assisted in decorating them then it is unethical for her to post them, but not sure it is illegal. You can always tell her to ceace and desist their use or face legal action, that will usually get the person to quit using them. The chance of her continueing and risking her new business is slim to none.

towncrierbakery Posted 1 Nov 2009 , 3:51am
post #20 of 65

thank-you for the feed back this is really helping me so much. You are right it is unethical what she did.

summernmicah99 Posted 1 Nov 2009 , 3:52am
post #21 of 65

I guess I'm lucky, the bakery I work at wants photos taken for their porfolio, when I asked my manager if I could get photos of cakes I decorate for my personal porfolio, she had no problem with it at all. She knows I am building a porfolio, and when I forgot my camera at home, she store-used a disposable camera so both porfolios could continue to be built. The conditions I have with my store are A: I claim only cakes I make. B: I make sure bakery made cakes are displayed in their porfolio as well as mine. C: I don't "steal" customers from the store. D: I disclose where the cake was decorated (previous bakery, current bakery, home). This a rather non-conventional arrangement but it works for me and the bakery, I count myself very lucky for being able to do this! By spelling everything out, I feel that it is ethical but fair for both the bakery and me. I can claim ownership of my decorating ideas, but the bakery can claim ownership of the product.

-K8memphis Posted 1 Nov 2009 , 4:13am
post #22 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by K8memphis-

I have two pictures on my website of cakes that I made that were contracted with the bakery where I was employed. I had permission from them to take the picture.

Whoever owns the picture owns the rights to use it.




Meaning to take my own picture with my own camera--but I asked their permission first. Now the picture is mine not theirs.

rosiecast Posted 1 Nov 2009 , 5:42am
post #23 of 65

I think what she did is just wrong. Not sure about the legal aspect, but I always thought that the "boss" was the owner of whatever you created while you're working for them.

Good luck to you,

akgirl10 Posted 1 Nov 2009 , 5:52am
post #24 of 65

I'm a little confused. You took pictures of the cakes and posted them, and now the decorator is taking those same pics off your site and posting them on her advertisement? That is wrong.

If she took her own pics of the cakes, and you didn't have an agreement before, then I think that's OK.

If she has any pics of cakes she didn't decorate, definitely not OK.

You need a written agreement of non disclosure and such whenever you hire someone.

all4cake Posted 1 Nov 2009 , 6:55am
post #25 of 65

I have one photo...not on my website but on the local yahoo ad...of a cake another bakery baked, I decorated, I took the picture of the cake with my camera at said bakery...on the ad, underneath the photo, I stated it was baked by ____ and decorated by me. ...it was also designed by me using the customer's ideas...stack of presents, using their colors desired. I haven't checked in a while but they didn't have a website...

andiesweet Posted 1 Nov 2009 , 7:26am
post #26 of 65

I work at a bakery as a decorator and i also do cakes from my home of the side my boss knows and is cool with it, she actually refers me for cakes if it is an adult cake, or if she is overbooked, or sometimes if the customer won't pay her price...

Anyway... when I am showing my cakes to a potential client I only show them cakes that I have made myself, away from my job. I take pics of the cakes i do at work, but don't use them to promote myself.

towncrierbakery Posted 1 Nov 2009 , 12:35pm
post #27 of 65

akgirla10

The decorator work for us for a short time and we had our customers and wedding venues that I meet with and created the design of the cakes, She decorated the cakes for us at our shop with our products ,we paid her. We take pictures to post on our website and blog and such. She was planning now that I put it all together to open her on shop from home. Then suddenly everything we did was wrong as a commercial bakery, we are a small family buisness. Then on all her website for her home based bakery there are pictures of our cakes that are also posted on our websites. It is to me a conflict of interest. You are right she does not give us any credit for baking the cakes and the design she is taking all the credit herself.

-K8memphis Posted 1 Nov 2009 , 12:53pm
post #28 of 65

The credit for and owner of the design in the photo is a non-factor legally as far as I understand it but I'm not a lawyer

Legally whoever owns the photograph owns the rights to it--the contents of the photo are not a factor unfortunately.

Morally maybe but nothing legally as I understand these things.

Who own the pictures and the camera, CakeBuddy?

costumeczar Posted 1 Nov 2009 , 1:31pm
post #29 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakesdivine

You can only own the rights to your creations photos if you paid and filed the copyrights on each photo. Just saying on your site or each photo that it is copyrighted does not make it so. If you go to court you will have to actually prove that you hold the copyright to those photos by producing the legal paperwork supporting your claim. But if she personally didn't design them and only assisted in decorating them then it is unethical for her to post them, but not sure it is illegal. You can always tell her to ceace and desist their use or face legal action, that will usually get the person to quit using them. The chance of her continueing and risking her new business is slim to none.




If you want to take her to court you do have to register the copyright, but you don't have to in order to own it. This is from the US Copyright office website:

When is my work protected?
Your work is under copyright protection the moment it is created and fixed in a tangible form that it is perceptible either directly or with the aid of a machine or device.

Do I have to register with your office to be protected?
No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section Copyright Registration.


Here's the link http://www.cakecentral.com/cake-decorating-ftopic-quote-6609180.html

You're right that telling people to stop using your work is generally enough, though.

cylstrial Posted 1 Nov 2009 , 1:56pm
post #30 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by akgirl10

I'm a little confused. You took pictures of the cakes and posted them, and now the decorator is taking those same pics off your site and posting them on her advertisement? That is wrong.

If she took her own pics of the cakes, and you didn't have an agreement before, then I think that's OK.

If she has any pics of cakes she didn't decorate, definitely not OK.

You need a written agreement of non disclosure and such whenever you hire someone.




I agree with this completely!

Who took the pictures? And was there an agreement?

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