tarascupcakes Posted 13 Sep 2009 , 8:34pm
post #1 of

After my cakes sit overnight with fondant over it, the bottom bulges and sags. Of course, by this time, the fondant is dry, so I can't mess with it or it cracks/breaks. I don't know if it's because my cakes are so moist (I use a basic box cake mix with mayo in it right now) or there is another factor. I use Satin Ice fondant. I have tried rolling it thinly (which always gets a tear) and thickly. Luckily, I have been able to coverup the apparent bulge with a border, but I still see it. See my blue/brown baby shower cake. I know the weight of the top tier may have been a factor, but I have also done 1 tier cakes that did the same thing.
My husband swears no one else can tell, but I just want a nice, smooth, nonbulging cake! It's flat and smooth when I first put it on. I also have an issue with my buttercream not crusting (see my other thread) and I don't know if that's an issue. I am using a non high ration shortening (Crisco). Don't know how and where to get a high ratio without paying way more. Any advice? Thanks in advance!

www.tarascupcakes.blogspot.com

29 replies
sugarshack Posted 13 Sep 2009 , 11:26pm
post #2 of

the crisco may be the problem, now that it has no trans fats, it is causing a lot of BC to not crust and slip and slide.

find a store brand with trans fats and see if it helps

Mickey17 Posted 13 Sep 2009 , 11:35pm
post #3 of

I think that it is probably your cakes. If the cake isn't firm enough it will compress with the weight of the fondant, which gives you excess fondant that kind of puddles at the bottom.

See if you can find a firmer cake recipe.

Evoir Posted 14 Sep 2009 , 12:05am
post #4 of

Is it worse in cakes with more than one tier? Are you putting in the right amount of internal support for your tiered cakes? (ie skewers or straws or SPS).

One idea with moist cakes too is to wrap and freeze them, then when they defrost they seem more stable. Really fresh cakes are difficult to fondant I find!

If you don't want to change your cake recipe or to freeze, you might try wrapping your cake sides in fondant first, then applying fondant to the top...you can pipe over the join or simply smooth over. This might help with the weight of the fondant affecting the cake structure by dragging down on the sides. Or you can wrap the sides, let it dry, then apply another layer of fondant over the whole cake?

roweeena Posted 14 Sep 2009 , 12:06am
post #5 of

Are you doweling your cakes and letting your fondant sit before you stack them? Its best to cover the night before you decorate so the fondant has a chance to firm up. you then dowel and stack.

Thats how I do it anyway.

It does sound like your cakes are too soft also, are you using anything underneath the fondant? If you ganache the ganache should be set and if you buttercream it should be refrigerated so its hard. It will soften up after its covered.

I looked at your fondant and it looks really wet, what do you use to roll it out?

chanda Posted 14 Sep 2009 , 12:18am
post #6 of

It seems like lots of people are having saggy cakes this weekend!1 I did and I was using satin ice!! icon_sad.gif Still don't know why.

LaBellaFlor Posted 14 Sep 2009 , 12:28am
post #7 of

I have a very soft cake that I cover in fondant. If you think the weight of your top tier is too heavy, you may need a better support system. The weight of cakes shouldn't effect being on top of each other if they are supported properly.

KitchenKat Posted 14 Sep 2009 , 12:55am
post #8 of

After you torte and fill your cakes how long do you let them sit before covering with fondant?

I find it essential to let them sit at room temp at least for half a day, but usually overnight. The weight of the layers compresses the filling and allows air to escape. It also allows excess filling to smoosh out. I even put a heavy chopping board, bought and used only for this purpose, on top of the cake to really compress everything. The next day I can just go over the cake with a spatula, clean up any filling that has bulged out and then crumbcoat and cover. If you cover with fondant without letting the cake stand the air or filling gets trapped in the fondant creating a bulge.

I also find it easier to cover the cake with ganache under fondant. It sets up hard and really holds in the filling, preventing bulges and bumps.

tarascupcakes Posted 14 Sep 2009 , 1:07am
post #9 of

I do use dowels for support. Currently I'm only doing a 6" on a 8" so I use 3 dowels for the support. I usually freeze or chill them very cold, ice with my non-crusting buttercream (another issue I'm having), refrigerate for the night, then the next day I lay the fondant over and start putting all the fondant embellishments on it, which I'm sure add more weight. I will try letting it harden first before decorating. That's one thing.
Next, I will search for a shortening that has trans fat. I assume it will say somewhere on the can?
Oh and recently I found out that I should not be refrigerating my fondant cakes. That's why most of them look wet. I have not done it the last 2 fondant cakes and they were fine. They didn't melt after I took them out. Silly me. I'm self-teaching myself, so I'm learning everything the hard way.
I think my first step is to get a crusting buttercream.
Somewhere I read to fondant a room-temp cake cause if not, when the cold cake/icing warms, it will have condensation and if the fondant is on it, it will ruin the fondant. But on this site, it seems as though everyone fondants a cold cake. I even read a thread somewhere from Collette Peters and she fondants a cold cake as well. I'm gonna try that as well.
Keep the ideas coming and I really and truly appreciate your help! It means everything to me!

LaBellaFlor Posted 14 Sep 2009 , 6:00am

I use IMBC and that does not crust. I also do not keep my cakes in the fridge over night. I keep them in there long enough to get firm & I don't always do that. The wedding cake in my pics was never in the fridge & is covered in fondant. That is probably your problem. They are to cold underneath and are settling as they warm back up. And keep in mind what works for some does not work for others.

tarascupcakes Posted 16 Sep 2009 , 11:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaBellaFlor

I use IMBC and that does not crust. I also do not keep my cakes in the fridge over night. I keep them in there long enough to get firm & I don't always do that. The wedding cake in my pics was never in the fridge & is covered in fondant. That is probably your problem. They are to cold underneath and are settling as they warm back up. And keep in mind what works for some does not work for others.





It's all so very confusing. I read another cake maker who says she freezes a cake covered in fondant!!??!! I don't know what to try this weekend. I DON'T want my fondant to do that darn bulging thing at the bottom.
I'm nervous!
I guess I'll just put the fondant on a room-temp, iced cake and let it settle overnight at room temp and then decorate the next day. Seems like a lot of waiting and also makes the cake older too. Not as fresh. Anyway....

tarascupcakes Posted 17 Sep 2009 , 2:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitchenKat

After you torte and fill your cakes how long do you let them sit before covering with fondant?

I find it essential to let them sit at room temp at least for half a day, but usually overnight. The weight of the layers compresses the filling and allows air to escape. It also allows excess filling to smoosh out. I even put a heavy chopping board, bought and used only for this purpose, on top of the cake to really compress everything. The next day I can just go over the cake with a spatula, clean up any filling that has bulged out and then crumbcoat and cover. If you cover with fondant without letting the cake stand the air or filling gets trapped in the fondant creating a bulge.

I also find it easier to cover the cake with ganache under fondant. It sets up hard and really holds in the filling, preventing bulges and bumps.




I'm going to try this today with the compression. What do you do about using the ganache if the customer does not want chocolate? Plus, that will add to my cost, which I can't do right now, but maybe some day. Thanks for the tip!

tarascupcakes Posted 17 Sep 2009 , 6:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarascupcakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by KitchenKat

After you torte and fill your cakes how long do you let them sit before covering with fondant?

I find it essential to let them sit at room temp at least for half a day, but usually overnight. The weight of the layers compresses the filling and allows air to escape. It also allows excess filling to smoosh out. I even put a heavy chopping board, bought and used only for this purpose, on top of the cake to really compress everything. The next day I can just go over the cake with a spatula, clean up any filling that has bulged out and then crumbcoat and cover. If you cover with fondant without letting the cake stand the air or filling gets trapped in the fondant creating a bulge.

I also find it easier to cover the cake with ganache under fondant. It sets up hard and really holds in the filling, preventing bulges and bumps.



I'm going to try this today with the compression. What do you do about using the ganache if the customer does not want chocolate? Plus, that will add to my cost, which I can't do right now, but maybe some day. Thanks for the tip!




Also, I don't think my cake would hold a heavy board on top of it. I think it would break. I may have to try something. Hopefully the crusting recipe that everyone swears by that I'm going to try today will help the situation as well. IDK!

dandelion56602 Posted 17 Sep 2009 , 7:17pm

I would suggest trying a different cake. Here's a link to some AWESOME variations of WASC. It's a sturdy, but moist cake, can be used under fondant & carved as well. http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=df4f9hbq_46cs9f28fs

Here's what works for me.

1) A thick dam---prevents that middle bulge. From Sugarshack I learned to mix in PS until thick (I like to be able to form a ball out of it)

2) After I pipe the dam I put a piece of wax paper on top of it, then a cake board & press down gently but firmly. I fill then put on top cake layer. I do the same w/ the wax paper/board again.

3) Crumb coat & let sit at least a few hours or overnight. If I don't have time for this I will sit a pan or board on top of the cake w/ a jar or can (not empty) to help w/ compression.

4) I don't usually put a lot of buttercream on the cake but will put a little more if I think it needs it. Smooth w/ Viva papertowel & pop in deep freezer for about 10 min. This hardens the buttercream, but not the cake. Done it w/ SMBC too.

5) Cover in fondant & let sit a few hours before decorating.

Is your dam firm? How much buttercream do you put on? The weight of the fondant may be squishing the buttercream when it warms up. Again try another cake recipe! I agree w/ the cakes being too cold. Also, you can freeze MMF, but it needs to be put in the fridge to thaw before room temp. You can put it straight into the fridge & then room temp w/ no problem. Another thing, once you've crumb coated you've sealed in the moisture & it will be ok at room temp about 5-7 days. Fillings are another story

Hope you're getting answers to your question!

cs_confections Posted 17 Sep 2009 , 7:36pm

For your buttercream issue, try Wal-Mart's Great Value Vegetable Shortening (make sure you get veg as both the veg and the meat fats have a picture of pie!). I switched a few cakes back and have loved my buttercream ever since.

As for Satin Ice, I always seem to get little tears here and there, so I can't help you with that!

sleepy33 Posted 17 Sep 2009 , 7:53pm

I noticed that the Aldi brand shortening has trans fat as well. I didn't buy it intentionally for that, I use hi ratio for icing and just use the Aldi for softening fondant and such, but I happened to read it on the label the other day.

tarascupcakes Posted 19 Sep 2009 , 9:34pm

Go figure! I got no sagging this time. It has to be because of all the love and support from my friends here on CC. Thanks1
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_AQqB2gGRVAg/SrUvEMEVmTI/AAAAAAAAAeM/-iAO2HXtQ4E/s1600-h/bridalblog2.jpg

tarascupcakes Posted 3 Oct 2009 , 4:46am

So I figured out my problem with the sagging along the bottom edge of my fondant covered cakes. If I fondant a cake 8" or larger, I HAVE to put it on a sturdier board. I have been using the same thickness board for all my cakes and DUH, with a heavier cake, you need a thicker, sturdier board. Thus, when I would move the cake and lift up on the edges of the more flimsy board that has a give to it, it was pushing up along the edges of my cake causing the bulging. I will invest in some boards, I guess. If I keep adding these things to my necessity list, my prices will have to increase.
Also, this time, I made sure my dowels for this 2-tier I did today were high enough to actually hold the weight of the top tier. My last one I think I cut them too short. I still got the bulging on today's cake cause I just figured out my issue when I moved it and saw the bulge happen. I have a 3 tier coming up, that I will make sure this does not happen to that cake! Now if I could figure out how to stop these cake farts and blow outs from occurring, I would be a happy camper! I've been reading the forum posts on it and I don't think anyone has a definite answer for that problem. i had to hide a couple of them on this cake. I turned out nice. I'll post soon!

Sweet_Treats_1 Posted 3 Oct 2009 , 5:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitchenKat


I also find it easier to cover the cake with ganache under fondant. It sets up hard and really holds in the filling, preventing bulges and bumps.



Thanks, Good Tip. Have never tried but I will icon_smile.gif

jesus4fr Posted 1 Jun 2013 , 10:31pm

I started doing my cakes with the Wilton fondant which I had no problelms.  The cakes were beautiful and I had no problems with sagging or anything else.  I was able to get 20 lbs of Satin Ice from a resteraunt store and the cost was half of what I was paying for Wilton.  When I started using it I noticed it was more pliable than Wilton.  I made a two tier communion cake with it and I had the worst time with it.  The fondant started sagging within an hour and I had to cut a lot off the bottom to get it to look halfway decent and it had an ugly skin on it.  I am not sure if this is just normal with this brand.  Like I said I never had a problem with Wilton but I find it too expensive.

jesus4fr Posted 1 Jun 2013 , 10:34pm

@tarascupcakes - I get my hi-ratio shortening at Walmart.  They have their own store brand that is the size of Crisco.  I get mine for $3 and change.  It makes my buttercream taste soooo much better.

Momof2froggies Posted 21 Feb 2014 , 9:19pm

AI should have read this thread before... I used Satin Ice fondant for the first time this week. I usually use MF or Wilton but they had SI on sale in the color I needed so I decided to give it a try. What a pain!!!! I had to roll it three times because it kept tearing up. In the end I placed it on the cake and decided to cover up the little tears with the rest of the decoration and the cake turned out ok. But I'm never using that fondant again!

MELROSE315 Posted 21 Feb 2014 , 10:39pm

A

Original message sent by jesus4fr

@tarascupcakes - I get my hi-ratio shortening at Walmart.  They have their own store brand that is the size of Crisco.  I get mine for $3 and change.  It makes my buttercream taste soooo much better.

Really? Hi ratio? Great value? Or ....I have not used any hi ratio shortening before I have read how expensive and hard to get it is...details please :)

jesus4fr Posted 24 Feb 2014 , 2:31am

At my Walmart it is found right next to the Crisco.  I am not 100% sure it is Great Value but it has a dark blue wrapper.  It will say "contains meat fat".  It makes my buttercream very creamy and has a better flavor to it.  My Walmart only has a couple to choose from.   Hope this helps.

CWR41 Posted 24 Feb 2014 , 4:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesus4fr 
 

It will say "contains meat fat".  It makes my buttercream very creamy and has a better flavor to it.

Gross... it's lard -- great for pie crusts, but not buttercream.

Godot Posted 24 Feb 2014 , 6:18am

AOh that is just nasty.

Meat doesn't belong in cake.

DeniseNH Posted 24 Feb 2014 , 1:11pm

No time to read all the replies but here's my two cents worth.  If you want your Crisco to behave, add a heaping tablespoon full of plain old flour to the recipe.  This "fix" was posted on the Crisco site after everyone complained about the change in the Transfat.  Your buttercream will now crust.  The second hint is to press down on your cakes after you've filled them - but before you crumbcoat, to squeeze out any air in the cakes center and to help it settle more quickly.  But the best way to check on a settling cake is to fill then cover with saran - place it in the fridge over night with a couple saucers on top as a "weight".  In the morning the cake will have settled, just remove the weights and base coat then finish coat and you shouldn't have any more settling issues.  Also, if your satin ice is moving on you, why not add more confectioners sugar to it before putting it in place.  Are you rolling it out on Crisco or powdered sugar?  In your case, reinforcing it with powdered sugar is key.

jesus4fr Posted 25 Feb 2014 , 1:09am

It is not Lard.  It says shortening but it is just not vegetable and trust me, my buttercream is delicious and not greasy tasting at all.

sixinarow Posted 25 Feb 2014 , 1:31am

If it is the brand in this picture, it says it contains beef tallow. Beef tallow is fat rendered from cows, lard is fat rendered from pigs. Same thing from different animals. But just to clear up a little more confusion, that shortening is not high-ratio shortening. Here's a link for what exactly tallow comes from. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tallow

cakefat Posted 26 Feb 2014 , 12:00pm

that sounds disgusting...beef tallow in your buttercream? no thanks!

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