MiriamG Posted 30 Aug 2009 , 1:46am
post #1 of

Hello everyone,

I have been baking for many years but am about to do my first wedding cake (for my best friend's sister).

The cake needs to be non-dairy, and I'm unsure about what the best substitute would be for butter. I've used Earth Balance in other baked goods and the taste is always good, but the texture comes out differently. I'm worried that the texture difference could ruin the cake and icing.

The cake will be covered with fondant, so the buttercream will really be for the filling and the crumb coat.

Can anyone provide advice on good alternatives to butter for the cake and "butter"cream, or any other relevant tips?

Thank you so much!!

MG

45 replies
myslady Posted 30 Aug 2009 , 4:21am
post #2 of

you can use a shortening based buttercream in which you use all shortening (crisco or storebrand) in place of your butter. You can also use Bettercream or Frostin Pride or Pastry Pride. They are all non-dairy whipped icings.

MiriamG Posted 30 Aug 2009 , 2:13pm
post #3 of

Thank you so much for your response! Do you think the taste will be good with those suggested ingredients (shortening, in particular)? If I add flavoring will that suffice?

Thanks again,
MG

chanielisalevy Posted 30 Aug 2009 , 5:51pm
post #4 of

I always bake non dairy dueto kosher reasons. As such, I always replace mik with soy or rice milk (or even water or orange juice) I use either margarine or shortening, etc. in place of butter. NEVER had a problem in 20 years of baking or 10 years of decorating! Good luck, hope this helps.

MiriamG Posted 30 Aug 2009 , 11:48pm
post #5 of

Thanks so much for your experienced advice! I also need to make it non-dairy for kosher reasons, so this is very helpful. Thanks again!

livelaughlove2011 Posted 16 Sep 2009 , 12:40pm
post #6 of

Since I love to bake, pareve baking as become a hobby. Pareve Earth Balance works good for the cake itself but not really liking it for icing. Due to the fact that it becomes oily on the icing. So I would try to get some GOOD pareve butter from the Kosher market.

malishka Posted 16 Sep 2009 , 1:15pm
post #7 of

My cakes are all non dairy for kosher reasons. I use smart balance non dairy (parve)margarin. It's the yellow and green tub. I have not had any complaints. For the icing, I use shortening. You can add any flavoring you like. And if a recipe calls for milk, I use soy milk or kosher non dairy creamers in my icing.
Also, you can use tofuti sour cream and tofuti cream cheese. I never went wrong with these products.

To all the kosher peeps out there, nice to meet you. I have had many a sleepless night trying to figure out substitutes for many amazing sounding dairy recipies. I think I'll put all of you on my "buddies" list if you don't mind. There are not too many of us on the CC & I think we can all help one another.

just_for_fun Posted 16 Sep 2009 , 1:33pm
post #8 of

Hi, I also ue shortening, margarine, rice/soy milk, pareve creamer. Never thought of using tofutti, now there are so many more recipes i can try! All my baking equipment is pareve, so I cannot try these recipes even if it's for a dairy event, cause I don't want to buy more stuff! Thanks so much, shana tova!

malishka Posted 16 Sep 2009 , 2:04pm
post #9 of

just_for_fun, I know what you mean.

MiriamG, does the cake need to be non dairy because of allergies or kosher reasons?
If it's for kosher reasons, you can't use the same pans that you make your dairy recipies in. Unless you kosher them or get new ones. If you really want to get "Kosher" technical, you can't make the cake on a Saturday either.

On a different note, I cannot find a parve substitute for heavy cream. Anyone have any advice?

MiriamG Posted 16 Sep 2009 , 5:41pm

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all your responses! I actually have a strictly kosher, sabbath observant home, and also keep all my equipment pareve.

I ended up making a cake which called for vegetable oil as the fat, and that worked out fine.

My first attempt at "buttercream" with Earth Balance was somewhat of a disaster, and I ended up using Crisco instead. I need to find some pareve butter flavoring, because it took a lot of vanilla and some orange extract to make that buttercream taste decent.

The cake came out great (according to those who ate and viewed it), so all in all a success - and a learning experience! I posted a pic of it with my profile.

It would be great to start a 'buddy list' for kosher bakers, I'm sure we can all benefit from eachother's experiences.

Thanks again, shana tova!
MG

livelaughlove2011 Posted 16 Sep 2009 , 7:11pm

I am glad the cake turned out!! icon_biggrin.gif Can't wait to see the photo. Its so cool to find a "kosher bakers" community on CC! I have just started cake decor. with a few friends of mine so we can make Kosher wedding and birthdays, etc cakes in our community!

MiriamG Posted 16 Sep 2009 , 7:17pm

Thank you! The fondant had some imperfections, so I'll try to do better on that next time. I had the most fun making the gum paste flowers...

Does anyone have a good source for kosher certified petal dust and luster dust? I've only found a few colors that have any sort of hechsher.

Also, I see that some of them are not even food grade, just non-toxic. Do those actually need kosher certification? Are they considered a food product?

sadsmile Posted 16 Sep 2009 , 7:33pm

I make icng with Earth Balance all the time. I use half Hi-rat and half vegan spread. I do not add as much hot liquid as sugarshacks recipe calls for because the spread has a higher water content, but I follow her recipe as a guide. I use Silk creamers and extracts for the liquid. I would like to find a thickner for it though. I keep making it with so much PS to keep it thick and sturdy and it is really sweet. I have substituted a little of the PS for CS and that helps a bit to tone down the seetness as does adding a pinch of salt.

just_for_fun Posted 16 Sep 2009 , 10:05pm

There is butter flavoring in the grocery near the other extracts and liquid food coloring.

You can shop at the Peppermill (in Brooklyn or thepeppermillinc.com) or Kerekes (bakedeco.com). happy homes housewares (ehappyhome.com) I found that bakedeco.com had the biggest selection, they cater more to the pro (which i am not!), great prices, they know what they're talking about, and will know the kosher certification of each item.

MiriamG Posted 16 Sep 2009 , 11:59pm

Thanks for the great suggestions! I've also been to NY Cake Supply on W. 22nd St, and Patty Cakes in Queens. I bought a couple things online at shopbakersnook.com as well - their prices seemed to be quite good.

malishka Posted 17 Sep 2009 , 5:27pm

does anyone know if there is such a thing as non dairy candy melts? Wilton candy melts are kosher but dairy, and I really need them sometimes to stick something heavy on my cakes.
Any suggestions? I tried Royal icing, but at times, I need something stronger.

MirimaG and fellow kosher CCers, below every post is a little square that sais "profile". when you click on it, you will go into another window of that person's info. If you click on "Buddy", they automatically go on your personal buddy list. This way, you will always keep in touch with that particular person and ask any questions you may have.

To find all of your buddies, refer to the window on the left hand side of your home page that sais "My forum posts". when you open that window, at the top of your page you will see "buddy list".

Shana Tova to you all and may your fast be easy on Yom Kipur.

MiriamG Posted 17 Sep 2009 , 5:40pm

Malishka, thanks for the 'buddy' tip!

I've used Merckens a couple times, but those candy melts are also dairy.

I found two pareve items that might work: Shufra's white baking bar, and Leiber's white decorating chips. I've never used them, so I can't speak from experience, but they're probably the closest thing you'll find to pareve candy melts. I assume you'd have to add coloring to the melted product if you wanted it to match something on your cake.

Hope that helps, and Shana Tov u'Metuka!

MiriamG Posted 17 Sep 2009 , 5:42pm

Actually, I think the Shufra product does come in different colors.... see here: http://www.manhattanchocolates.com/products.cfm?categoryid=2400&ProductID=1350384&do=Detail

sadsmile Posted 17 Sep 2009 , 6:07pm

I found these...

http://www.happycow.net/blog/?p=720

I have used the one in the first link. They were good.

I am wondering if we melted it down and added some soy milk powder would it help to add a depth to the flavor like the real dairy white chocolate. If you are making ganache you need cream anyway. Soy creamers and soy milk are nothing like ehavey cream but I think adding some more fat and flavor with the powder might help.

malishka Posted 17 Sep 2009 , 7:01pm

thank you, but Shufra doesn't look like it gets really hard. I could be wrong. The candy melts get really hard so I can use them in molds just like the shufra chocolate. However, I don't know if it would harden quickly or at all, if I use it as a glue.

when it comes to finding a heavy cream, it's hopeless.

sadsmile Posted 17 Sep 2009 , 7:31pm

not at all hopeless...

http://www.veganstore.com/vegan-food-items/dairy-alternatives.html

There are 3 on this page mimic cream, provamel heavey cream and condensed canned cream


If you need whipped:
And the soyatoo whipped topping is FABULOUS!!!!! But wait till they have the cartons in that are pantry stable and can be whipped yourself-they have way more cream then the cans disspence.

just_for_fun Posted 17 Sep 2009 , 7:45pm

I asked at my local kosher cake deco store what there is comparable to wilton candy melts, and they said there is really nothing that can replace it. the shufra bars (and i think liebers too) come in a few colors, they don't taste very good and i don't think they dry as quickly/hard as candy melts. I have never tried attaching anything heavy to the side of a cake, so I don't really know what you can use.

malishka Posted 17 Sep 2009 , 7:46pm

Oh my G-d. I think I just heard the angels sing. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

how about the provamil heavy soya cream. I have never ordered this on the internet. have you?

sadsmile Posted 17 Sep 2009 , 7:50pm

I ordered those chips and the soyatoo last year. I have a cart full right now..LOL if I can convince my hubby that we need all this stuff right now! $$$ but most of it will last. I am over the moon about the canned condenced soy milk! I have never seen that before. And I can't wait to try the mimic cream.

malishka Posted 17 Sep 2009 , 8:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by just_for_fun

I asked at my local kosher cake deco store what there is comparable to wilton candy melts, and they said there is really nothing that can replace it. the shufra bars (and i think liebers too) come in a few colors, they don't taste very good and i don't think they dry as quickly/hard as candy melts. I have never tried attaching anything heavy to the side of a cake, so I don't really know what you can use.




Thank you for asking them. Now I am thinking of using the parve white chocolate. I'll tell you how it goes.

malishka Posted 17 Sep 2009 , 8:13pm

sadsmile, I see that you're really into pigs. Kosher ones I am sure. lol

I can't wait to try the condensed milk also. And with the rest of this stuff,
OH the possibilities!!! icon_smile.gif You have made me happy my friend.

I'll be putting condensed milk into cake batters, my icing, my fillings. I wonder how it will do if I use it insead of heavy cream for a ganache.

I'm getting too excited. Have to calm down before my boss notices.

sadsmile Posted 17 Sep 2009 , 8:38pm

LOL I love pigs but eating them really does not agree with me. I love finding new things! It is exciting. Now if only we could figure out a vegan cheese cake that comes really close.

malishka Posted 17 Sep 2009 , 8:50pm

well, my dad's wife makes a non dairy cheesecake. It is plain nasty. we swallow it so we don't insult her, but even my kids (not knowing it's not real) won't touch it.

Experiment, experiment that's what I do. Just finding products at my local supermarket is difficult, not to mention the 2 whinny kids I have that want to go home. Kosher markets are way to expensive and I always look at ways to cut $$$.
by the way, your cakes are beautiful. Especially the one that you made with a big bow on top. I also have all of Sharon's videos. I love her!!!

MiriamG, can we see your cake?

MiriamG Posted 17 Sep 2009 , 9:02pm

Yep, I posted pics of the wedding cake and a cake I made for a friend's new baby, in my profile. Let me know if you can't view them.

sadsmile Posted 17 Sep 2009 , 9:36pm

That is exactly what I am talking about Malishka! YUCK! LOL

I wish I had Sharon's videos! One day I will, but I am just starting out and making cakes for my family and friends. It shows in your cakes that you have her DVDs! icon_eek.gif

Miriam I really like your textured yellow loopy bow topper!

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