jen71 Posted 4 Aug 2009 , 4:06pm
post #1 of

Does anyone know where to buy food-grade pvc pipe for modeling cakes like they do on the cake shows?

Any guidance is appreciated. Thanks. icon_lol.gif

68 replies
Peridot Posted 4 Aug 2009 , 4:41pm
post #2 of

I would like to know that also.

I didn't think they made food safe PVC pipe. I thought that everyone bought the standard kind at the hardware store and just washed it. Also what diameter is best as I see so many times on the cake shows that they roll their fondant onto the rolling pin/PVC pipe (after they have rolled out the fondant) to transfer it to the cake.

Does anyone do this and what are the secrets of doing this vs. picking it up with your hands and arms and transferring it. Does this work better - less stretching or tears in the fondant? Does the PVC pipe work better for rollingo ut the fondant than a rolling pin since you can get it in longer lengths or is the fact that there is no weight to it hinder the rolling process and makes it much more difficult to roll?

Doug Posted 4 Aug 2009 , 5:03pm
post #3 of

the pvc used to bring DRINKING water into a house is food safe, after all you are drinking the water.

so just look for PVC made for use as drinking water SUPPLY

(not waste removal, aka sewer, gray water, etc.)

jen71 Posted 4 Aug 2009 , 6:34pm
post #4 of
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug

the pvc used to bring DRINKING water into a house is food safe, after all you are drinking the water.

so just look for PVC made for use as drinking water SUPPLY

(not waste removal, aka sewer, gray water, etc.)


Thank you Doug. That makes perfect sense.

PinkZiab Posted 4 Aug 2009 , 6:45pm
post #5 of
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peridot

I see so many times on the cake shows that they roll their fondant onto the rolling pin/PVC pipe (after they have rolled out the fondant) to transfer it to the cake... what are the secrets of doing this vs. picking it up with your hands and arms and transferring it. Does this work better - less stretching or tears in the fondant?




This is pretty much classic technique for transferring any type of rolled out dough (moving fondant onto the cake, movie pie crust to the pie plate, etc). As you said, it helps prevent stretching and tearing of the dough and you can easily carry it across a room this way without much worry.

3GCakes Posted 4 Aug 2009 , 7:07pm
post #6 of

I've kind of thought about this too, like on Cake BOss he rolls out a mile long stretch of something on his electric roller and they just stick a rolling pin at the end and it "loads itself" onto the pin. Very neat.

Doug....good point about the drinking water PVC.

tracycakes Posted 4 Aug 2009 , 7:15pm
post #7 of

Doug's right on - pvc is used in your house for water.

I use 3 different sizes of pvc for rolling pins. I have the 2 1/2" (diameter) size cut pretty long for rolling out fondant to cover a cake. I have a small one, like 1" that I use for gumpaste and small fondant work. Then I have one about 1 1/2" that I use for rolling out stars and other fondant decorations. It's works pretty well for me and I can get whatever size rolling pin I need.

dolcebaci Posted 4 Aug 2009 , 7:36pm
post #8 of

I just got back from ICES 09 and the question came up regarding "food safe PVC pipes" and Doug is correct WATER PVC pipe is perfectly safe.

"The Two Sweet Sisters" who will be on TLC ..use it all the time.

Peridot Posted 4 Aug 2009 , 7:50pm
post #9 of

Tracycakes & Pink Ziab,

Tracycakes,
I am very interested in doing this PVC rolling pin thing. How long is the 2 1/2 inch piece that you use to roll the fondant? Do you find that it is harder to roll a large piece with the PVC because the weight is not there like a heavy rolling pin?

What I hate about my rolling pin is the length - I have a Silpin and it's great - fondant doesn't stick to it but I always get the marks in the fondant from the edge and that is frustrating. So I am thinking that I need the PVC pipe and that will take care of the problem.

PinkZiab,
Do I need to dust my fondant with powdered sugar as I am rolling it up on the PVC pipe? I am wondering if it will stick to itself and not unroll properly.

AND drinking water PVC pipe only!!!

Thanks.

dsilvest Posted 4 Aug 2009 , 7:56pm

I roll the fondant out with my heavy rolling pin and then use my 36" piece of PVC pipe to transfer it to a large cake.

LaBellaFlor Posted 4 Aug 2009 , 7:57pm

The one thing Wilton's did come out with that has never given me a problem is their large plastic rolling pin. It has rounded ends so there is no markings made. I always roll my fondant up on it to go lay on my cakes. Never a problem.

dsilvest Posted 4 Aug 2009 , 8:27pm

The wilton pin is fine for anything less than a 14" diameter cake. Anything larger and I use the 36 " PVC pipe.

bisbqueenb Posted 4 Aug 2009 , 9:06pm

You can also 'round' the ends of the PVC pipe with sand paper/power sanders etc. This will make it easier to roll out without any marks on the fondant/gumpaste. I used the power sander first to round off the edge, then used a very fine paper to finish with hand sanding.

cheatize Posted 5 Aug 2009 , 4:54am

Aren't you breaking the coating when you sand it? I can see how you could keep it from contacting the food if it's larger than the fondant, though.

I can also see how the inside would be safe, but what about the outside? Are there any special coatings on the outside to make it last longer or something? Are we sure the ink doesn't seep into it so that the chemical is in there even though visible traces are gone?

mygirlssweet Posted 5 Aug 2009 , 5:09am

I'd like to know to.

madgeowens Posted 5 Aug 2009 , 5:20am

Yes but the pvc bringing water into the house is intact, not being inserted into food. It is after all a chemical....pvc...is pvc....the same used for piping water is used for sewer, and its only different in size!

madgeowens Posted 5 Aug 2009 , 5:24am

It is polyvinyl chloride.........sound yummy?
I'm just sayin.......read on...
http://www.besafenet.com/pvc/

JaimeAnn Posted 5 Aug 2009 , 5:25am

There are not any special coatings on PVC it is the same material all the way through.

I remove the ink from the PVC with steel wool before I ever use it.

madgeowens Posted 5 Aug 2009 , 5:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaimeAnn

There are not any special coatings on PVC it is the same material all the way through.

I remove the ink from the PVC with steel wool before I ever use it.


yes its polyvinyl chloride all through it, that's true!

JaimeAnn Posted 5 Aug 2009 , 6:06am

I respectfully have to disagree.

PVC for sewer and drainage are marked SDR or cellular core.

All public water systems are run with ASTM D1785 which has a different molecular make up.

Almost all new construction homes are clean water piped with ASTM D1785.
This is the most common type of PVC available at home supply stores it is white , whereas the types for drainage or dirty water piping are usually black or grey in color.

ASTM D1785 is a NON leaching composite and could in no way become part of anything coming in contact with it. It would literally have to be ground down into a powder and baked into the cake to be ingested, the chemicals used to make PVC don't leak out and into your food no more than drinking from a plastic cup.

When water travels into your home it sits dormant in these PVC pipes until released therefore the water maintaining constant contact with the PVC. So using a piece of PVC to roll out fondant or transfer fondant to a cake is certainly no more of a hazard than drinking water from your Tap.

madgeowens Posted 5 Aug 2009 , 6:10am

Did you read the article in the website I posted? I am not an expert on polyvinyl chloride, I am simply relaying what I have found. They call it poison, not me. However having said that I asked someone in the contracting business about maybe using pvc in cake decorating and he said he didn't think that was a very good idea. So I don't use it....you sure can if you feel its ok

JaimeAnn Posted 5 Aug 2009 , 6:18am

The link you have provided is in reference to common products made with PVC some vinyl toys, and vinyl items (these also have special PVC softeners and plasticizers, the most widely used being phthalates,) added and these are what leach from that PVC .

Yes all PVC is not safe because of its chemical make up. But the PVC used for piping drinking water is safe.

madgeowens Posted 5 Aug 2009 , 6:18am

Here are the plastics you definitely want to steer clear of:

No. 3. Polyvinyl Chloride ( PVC) is softened with phthalates, which can leach into food and damage the liver, kidneys, lungs and reproductive system. In the kitchen, its sometimes found in squeeze bottles, cling wraps, and childrens dishes.

http://www.sustainlane.com/reviews/q-is-it-ever-safe-to-store-food-in-plastic/KFSJOKHC7UFDN8881QWNRM7WK8YO

madgeowens Posted 5 Aug 2009 , 6:21am

I am not a Phd in plastics, I just don't think they really know all there is to know and I personally would not use it for my family.....would not want them to come back later and say oh geeze thats a carcinogen........ya know....Have a good day

JaimeAnn Posted 5 Aug 2009 , 6:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by madgeowens

Here are the plastics you definitely want to steer clear of:

No. 3. Polyvinyl Chloride ( PVC) is softened with phthalates, which can leach into food and damage the liver, kidneys, lungs and reproductive system. In the kitchen, its sometimes found in squeeze bottles, cling wraps, and childrens dishes.

http://www.sustainlane.com/reviews/q-is-it-ever-safe-to-store-food-in-plastic/KFSJOKHC7UFDN8881QWNRM7WK8YO




Exactly . You are correct, The phthalates are what leaches out.

I am not trying to challenge you or being disrespectful, and I totally agree that there are some products containing PVC that should be avoided because of the phthalates.

Phthalates are not present in PVC pipe used for plumbing, and that is the specific type we were discussing.

As you stated before everyone is free to use what they want and maybe someone learned something from this and some people would probably rather be safe than sorry, but that can be applied to almost everything we come into contact with every day.

I am sure we will eventually find out everything is a carcinogen..

By the way your black leather jacket cake is really outstanding! I love it!


icon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gif

madgeowens Posted 5 Aug 2009 , 7:07am

Thanks...I was just thinking..............what is my behemoth fondant roller made out of hahahaha...............must be something close.......some kind of plastic.........yes well....the construction guy saying it was a bad idea made me nervous lol

JaimeAnn Posted 5 Aug 2009 , 7:31am

My husband was a General contractor for 20 years now he is an Oilfield construction supervisor .. He said its safe .. hahahah

alidpayne Posted 5 Aug 2009 , 12:48pm

The problem with construction guys is they know construction, but not much else (including food safety), trust me, I work with construction guys all day in my regular job. lol

It would be more dangerous to eat something that had been microwaved with plastic wrap on it than to eat cake that had touched pvc pipes.

I did a lot of research on this a year or so ago because someone on here was using pvc water supply pipe as dowels in their cake. Sounded like an awesome idea, but I wanted to feel confident that it was safe. I have been using them ever since.

Doug Posted 5 Aug 2009 , 2:10pm

YO! - -Time OUT

Glass is glass right? -- WRONG. There are many kinds of glass depending upon the additives. LEAD Crystal (think Waterford!) being the most expensive, the finest available for commercial sale. (there are other purer forms, like the tiles on the space shuttles but OH so brittle!) hmmmm... LEAD crystal. That's right LEAD, yet people use it to drink beverages (and show off --ooooh look at me and the fancy smansy glasses I can afford!)

Glaze on pottery is just a nice clear coating, isn't it? WRONG - the chemical composition of it varies GREATLY and sadly some of the most beautiful glazes are made with LEAD.

Ditto for paint. (remember it, leaded paint - strongest, most stable form!)

Ditto for gasoline (ah yes, leaded gasoline!)

and what about chocolate -- all the forms of it - white (not real chocolate), milk, dark, extra dark, good, bad, to die for!

go down the list -- all things come in many forms and variations (which is why I like 500 count Egyptian cotton sheets! -- now if only I could afford them) (and that super fine and expensive Belgian chocolate -- ditto for lack of affordability!)
-----

and that's just the start of the POISONS we use. Some, we have rightfully stopped the use.

Others we use on purpose. Example arsenic is a wonderful food PRESERVATIVE! and is in use in many countries for just that purpose (Try Asbach chocolates filled with Asbach Uralt liqueur from Germany! -- to die for, so yummy, and arsenic is one of the preservatives!

----

as for PVC -- it is blended with MANY different additives. Some allow leaching --- just look at the inside of your car's windows -- yep breathing in those fumes -- part of the "new car" smell.

Other's don't, as in the pipe made for DRINKING water

and as for it being "intact" -- guess you've never actually watched them install it or worked with it yourself. they DO cut it to make it fit and the "glue" they use is DEADLY if inhaled or ingested UNTIL it has time to cure.

this is not to say nothing leaches -- water is actually a mild acid in the way it works (100% pure water, which exists ONLY in high tech chem labs, will dissolve glass, albeit very slowly!)

you can easily tell the different types of PVC piping by marking and by COLOR. Almost all the drinking kind is WHITE and everything else some shade of gray.

----

Compared to other modern products - silicone (spatulas, breast implants), PTEF (aka teflon), etc., PVC is no worse nor any better if used PROPERLY.

teflon pans, brought to TOO high of a heat will release toxic fumes and chemicals -- so DUH, keep the temp down.

sugar -- brought to TOO high a heat will give you 3rd degree burns (as witnessed on several cake challenges) not to mention has the ability to induce sugar shock and even diabetic comma, yes it too is a POISON -- but we're still eating it (esp. in chocolate!!!!) If sugar were a brand new product never before seen, it couldn't pass muster for safety to allowed to be sold what with all the bad things it does.

And salt -- well yes it preserves buy sucking the life out of stuff, sends blood pressure through the ceiling. Yet, you HAVE to have it or you die.

Potassium -- too much you're dead from poisoning, too little you're dead because the muscles, especially the heart, don't work right anymore.

caffeine -- in high does disrupts the rhythm of the heart!

iron -- just enough for strong blood, too little anemic, too much can kill you! (iron poisoning in children!) Some people even have problems with "iron retention" (Hemochromatosis) and can't even use cast iron skillets let alone take vitamins with iron in them! and latest research says it's best NOT to supplement with iron past about 55 years age -- sorry Geritol!

and the list goes on and on and on..... (and don't even get me started on all the chemicals in the cleaning products we use!)
----

ANY thing can kill you (yep, even too much oxygen or water!) -- it's a matter of

measured use and control.

The drinking water safe labeled PVC used in caking is just as safe as all that sugar and flour -- oh ya a deadly allergen to some (gluten)! and don't forget those eggs, another deadly allergen to some! as butter can be too!

---
Our society has gone off the deep end in terms of OMGosh - everything must be perfectly SAFE!

WHAT A CROCK OF HOOEY!

tain't gonna happen

can't be achieved (not even in death the body rots!)

---

so show off your fancy Waterford filled with water (wine bad idea due to it's ability to leach the lead)

while eating your chocolate mocha cake (flour, sugar, eggs, milk,, butter, caffeine -- goll, dead right there! (or in chocolate heaven!)) baked in pans lined with parchment paper with a light silicone coating, covered in a ganache (more sugar and milk) made in a cast iron pot laced with bananas (potassium) caramelized (sugar) in a teflon pan and studded with Asbach chocolates (arsenic) (NO I WON'T SHARE -- MINE, ALL MINE!) that's been held together with pvc and presented on a beautiful Chinese lacquered platter (cashew oil main ingredient in the lacquer!) and was delivered in a very old car still running on leaded gas and being eaten off a traditionally Mexican glazed plate (lead in glaze) and with a pewter fork (tin+lead=pewter!)

all the while sucking on that oxygen tank (the smog will kill you!) and drinking 4 gals of water a day (keep the path to the bathroom open!) while sitting in your house that still has lead paint on the walls and woodwork as the air purifier that produces O3 (ozone! a posion!) cleans the air.

----

(tho' I personally wouldn't use steel wool to clean PVC. I'm sure mine would end up with too many bits and pieces sticking out mixed with grooves and scratches to be worth using any more)

----

I'll follow the advice of my now sainted mother.

In her 60s she was diagnosed with very high cholesterol (nearly 500!) (so bad, when the eye doctor did her exam, he could see flecks of cholesterol in the veins in her eyes!)

Doc put her on very strict diet and all kinds of pills and that yellow powder that helps lower cholesterol.

That lasted about a year.

She stopped all that stuff and went back to her high cholesterol ways.

Doc challenged her on it.

Her response -- I'm going to die. So, I'll die happy! and she did, almost 20 years later.

Better that than worry ourselves to death!

PinkZiab Posted 5 Aug 2009 , 2:17pm

This is why I <3 you Doug... I agree that we as a society have become WAY too paranoid of everything!

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