Daniela Posted 22 Aug 2005 , 7:42pm
post #1 of

Can anyone give me a general rule for fillings to use with fondant!! I'm going to make a fondant cake and since fondant cannot be refrigerated whenever I search for a filling I'm often asking myself if this filling needs to be refrigerated. I know ganache is a good choice but I was also looking for others that way I have a selection.


Thanks
Daniela

50 replies
thecakemaker Posted 22 Aug 2005 , 7:49pm
post #2 of

You've pretty much got it. I don't use anything that needs to be refrigerated so I don't have to worry about it. I have used jam or the store bought sleeves of filling on a fondant cake if I decorate it the night before an event - only if the cake will be kept inside in a cool environment. I haven't had any problems

Deb

Daniela Posted 22 Aug 2005 , 8:01pm
post #3 of

Hey Deb,
How are you?? Thanks for answering so quickly. I just want to make sure I understand!!! Will buttercream hold well without refrigeration for a few days?? This is the plan....I want to make a vanilla cake with a filling that I haven't chosen yet. It will be covered in fondant. Any suggestions for a filling? I'm really sorry to be asking to many times but I read that chosing a filling is very important because of food poisoning. Thanks so much


Daniela

melissablack Posted 22 Aug 2005 , 8:05pm
post #4 of

What about a fruit filling like lemon curd, strawberry filling, etc?

thecakemaker Posted 22 Aug 2005 , 8:06pm
post #5 of

Hi Daniela! I'm great thanks!

I use a butter-less buttercream and flavor it with LorAnn flavoring oils if I'm looking for a particular flavor (they come in so many flavors) then it will be safe to set out for a couple days with no problem. If it's not going to set out for any lenght of time then I get more adventurous (sp) with my fillings

Deb

HollyPJ Posted 22 Aug 2005 , 8:14pm
post #6 of

Colette Peters says in her books that a buttercream made with real butter is safe at room temp for several days due to the high sugar content. I've never had a problem with my all-butter buttercream going bad in a fondant-covered cake.

thecakemaker Posted 22 Aug 2005 , 8:18pm
post #7 of

That's good to know! I just figured - better safe than sorry!

Debbie

Daniela Posted 22 Aug 2005 , 8:35pm
post #8 of

Thanks for your help ladies!!


Daniela

itsacake Posted 23 Aug 2005 , 12:22am
post #9 of

I use meringue "buttercream" (quotes becasue it isn't butter but shortening" The only time I had a problem was when I added pureed fresh raspberries to the buttercream. I thought it would be OK becasue of the high sugar content, but it fermented and the filling tasted like rubbing alcohol.... I wouldn't use fresh raspberries or strawberries ever again unless it was continually refrigerated.

alimonkey Posted 23 Aug 2005 , 12:37am

That's good to know about fruit fillings, itsacake. I never would have thought of that.

Also, melissablack suggested lemon curd, but the eggs in it require refrigeration. Bummer for me, cuz that's just about my favorite filling, which means I can't do a fondant cake with it.

Ali

dandelion Posted 23 Aug 2005 , 12:38am

try chocolate pudding! the kind that comes in little cups and needs no refridgeration!

SquirrellyCakes Posted 23 Aug 2005 , 2:15am

Actually most lemon curds do not require refrigeration. Wilton has a lemon filling on the site that doesn't require refrigeration as does Martha Stewart on her site. Many lemon curd fillings are fine, remember because the egg yolks are cooked this gets rid of the salmonella bacteria, if this was your concern. Two to 4 days at room temperature below 75F and it should be fine.
Hugs Squirrelly Cakes

CakeItGood Posted 23 Aug 2005 , 3:47am

I am so glad this question was asked ... I was wondering the same thing.

Also wondering if buttercream made with heavy whipping cream instead of water woud need to be kept in the fridge. I made a test cake w/heavy whipping cream BC on Friday night ... brought it to work on Saturday morning and it still seemed ok today, although I don't know if the icing could have/should have withstood the weekend.

Any thoughts? Thanks!

SquirrellyCakes Posted 23 Aug 2005 , 4:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4bugzinarug

I am so glad this question was asked ... I was wondering the same thing.

Also wondering if buttercream made with heavy whipping cream instead of water woud need to be kept in the fridge. I made a test cake w/heavy whipping cream BC on Friday night ... brought it to work on Saturday morning and it still seemed ok today, although I don't know if the icing could have/should have withstood the weekend.

Any thoughts? Thanks!



Well, with whipping cream, it depends on if the whipping cream was the main ingredient or not. Generally, a few tbsp. of whipping cream to several cups of icing sugar is not a problem at all and can be kept for 2-3 days or even longer at a room temperature below 75F. Again, the sugar preserves the cream. But in a recipe where you would use say, a cup or two whipping cream and it is a main ingredient, well no, it would basically cause separation issues and likely become fairly runny. So about 2-4 tbsp. to 4-6 cups icing sugar wouldn't be a problem, about 1 cup to say 3-4 cups of icing sugar would be a problem. (Icing sugar is powdered sugar, by the way.)
I tend to use some salted butter in an icing recipe that uses whipping cream and milk again because the salt that preserves the butter also aids in the preservation of the other dairy products.
Hugs Squirrelly Cakes

SquirrellyCakes Posted 23 Aug 2005 , 4:05am

Should have added that an exception is ganache, mainly because it is chocolate and cream heated and this can be kept at room temperature for 2-3 days, the same as other icings where milk or cream are used just as the liquid combining agent, not as a main ingredient.
Hugs Squirrelly Cakes

CakeItGood Posted 23 Aug 2005 , 4:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SquirrellyCakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4bugzinarug


Also wondering if buttercream made with heavy whipping cream instead of water woud need to be kept in the fridge.

I tend to use some salted butter in an icing recipe that uses whipping cream and milk again because the salt that preserves the butter also aids in the preservation of the other dairy products




Thank you for this info ... it really helps! Now, if only I hadn't purchased about the mammoth sized multi -pound pack of unsalted butter at Sam's Club, LOL! Do you think just adding a bit of salt would help resolve that problem? I am using about 4 tablespoons of heavy whipping cream to a 2 pound bag of sugar, 1 cup butter, 1 cup Crisco, 2 teaspoons vanilla and 1 teaspoon butter flavoring. Making this recipe 6 times. Sigh ... I need that Delonghi 7 quart mixer!! icon_lol.gif


BTW - I love your recipes! Thanks

Jen

SquirrellyCakes Posted 23 Aug 2005 , 4:29am

Honestly, you really don't have to use salted butter, it will be just fine even without adding salt. In fact if you do add salt, add it into the liquid so it will dissolve somewhat or you may end up with gritty icing - lots of folks use the finer popcorn salt if they add salt. But honestly, I often use the unsalted and it makes no difference. Both sugar and salt are preservatives in their own ways. I make about the same icing recipe you are talking about. It will be absolutely fine. Even Wilton states it keeps on the counter for 2-3 days and they do not specify salted butter.
I can relate, I have the 4.5 quart mixer and I prefer to do one batch of icing at a time. Then I dump it all into a huge salad bowl and stir it up so that it is all the same consistency. Go figure, I made up 5 batches separately, mixed them in a huge salad bowl and then was able to fit all five batches into my 4.5 quart bowl and place a lid on it. Just shows you, you can compact it once it is done.
Hugs Squirrelly Cakes

Rainbow_Moon Posted 23 Aug 2005 , 6:04am

yes i've been using the pudding cups! i learned the hard way about using pudding mix (that you just add the powder to milk, whisk up and then refridgerate - DUH, of course that needs to be refridgerated after it's been put in a cake! i dunno what i was thinking!)
anyway i love butterscotch and carmel flavors and i've always got extra pudding cups sitting around the house now...hahaha.

leily Posted 23 Aug 2005 , 3:59pm

Thanks for the pudding cup suggestion! I just made a chocolate cake and wanted to use pudding for filling but I didn't want to worry about refridgeration b/c I want to cover it in fondant. Great idea!

SquirrellyCakes Posted 23 Aug 2005 , 5:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbow_Moon

yes i've been using the pudding cups! i learned the hard way about using pudding mix (that you just add the powder to milk, whisk up and then refridgerate - DUH, of course that needs to be refridgerated after it's been put in a cake! i dunno what i was thinking!)
anyway i love butterscotch and carmel flavors and i've always got extra pudding cups sitting around the house now...hahaha.



Actually these pudding cups must be refrigerated after opening. Jeanne G from the Wilton site contacted several manufacturers of these pudding cups and they all said, once they are opened they must be refrigerated.
Hugs Squirrelly Cakes

thecakemaker Posted 23 Aug 2005 , 5:17pm

That's what I thought too. I was hoping someone would clarify that. Most items like the pudding cups are fine until opened and then need to be refrigerated.

Thanks!
Debbie

tanyascakes Posted 23 Aug 2005 , 5:22pm

I was just thinking the same thing, since I was asking about them last week. I followed squirellycakes advice and talked the client into having a regular BC filling. I am glad that I didn't try the pudding cups. Massive failure would have likely ensued! Thanks again, Squirellycakes!

SquirrellyCakes Posted 23 Aug 2005 , 5:33pm

Heehee, you are welcome, we cannot have massive failure, haha!
It is a popular misconception. I guess the only reason why they don't have to be refrigerated before being opened is that they are vaccuum sealed, much like those little dairy creamers and such. But once opened they must be refrigerated.
I have cooked pudding type recipes that don't have to be refrigerated, but then, it is an old cookbook. Now I have used them and left a cake filled with them at room temperature for a day or two, but that was just for home use. I would be hesitant to do this with something leaving the house, just because of liability fears.
Technically even jam should be refrigerated according to the jars, but many folks have used jams for years, as fillings. A lot depends on the consistency of them too, some may get runny when at room temperature.
Here is a warning, if you use Jello Lemon Pie Filling, the kind you cook or Shirriffs or any of those types, you must refrigerate it. It separates and goes runny and makes a huge mess, similar to uncooked regular Jello gelatin. Hhmn, how did I know this? Well, I didn't have room for my lemon meringue pie and left it out on the counter. It got all runny and separated in only about 4 hours, yuck! So you really want to stick to the Wilton site recipe or one of the better curd recipes that do not require refrigeration.
Hugs Squirrelly Cakes

CakeItGood Posted 23 Aug 2005 , 7:28pm

Wow, I am learning so much here! What about the sleeves of Bavarian Creme filling that you can buy at cake supply stores? Would that face the same issue as the cups of pudding?

I promise not to ask any more questions in this thread after this, LOL! icon_biggrin.gif

thecakemaker Posted 23 Aug 2005 , 7:31pm

4bugzinarug - per sugarcraft.com the sleeves of pastry filling can sit out for 2 to 3 day and be ok. I was looking at that earlier today. I wouldn't leave them sit out for 2 to 3 days in 90 deg weather though.

Debbie

CakeItGood Posted 23 Aug 2005 , 7:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecakemaker

4bugzinarug - per sugarcraft.com the sleeves of pastry filling can sit out for 2 to 3 day and be ok. I was looking at that earlier today. I wouldn't leave them sit out for 2 to 3 days in 90 deg weather though.

Debbie




LOL, that's where mine came from and I didn't even think to look at the website. Thank you!

icon_biggrin.gif

SquirrellyCakes Posted 23 Aug 2005 , 7:38pm

I can't get it here, but I have heard that sometimes the sleeves of bavarian cream can go pretty sour in a couple of days. Apparently it is not always as fresh as it should be. Some folks have had issues with it, but not all.
Hugs Squirrelly Cakes

thecakemaker Posted 23 Aug 2005 , 7:41pm

You're welcome 4bugzinarug! That's good to know SquirrellyCakes - I hadn't heard that. I was just going by what was on the web-site.

Deb

beachcakes Posted 23 Aug 2005 , 7:47pm

In response to the lemon filling, I have successfully used lemon pie filling from the can (the name escapes me at the moment) and it has been ok at room temp a few days.

I know when I lived in Florida a while back I couldn't find it and had to have my mom send me some, so maybe it's a northeast thing?

gdixoncakes Posted 23 Aug 2005 , 7:47pm

So, after reading everyone's posts, I'm confused. Let me get this straight, so far only chocolate ganache, lemon curd and crisco/water buttercream are the only truly safe fillings for fondant cakes, right?

I've never worked with fondant but want to try it. How about MMF? Can it be refridgerated? Or are all fondants off-limits to refridgeration?

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