Ganache Crumbcoat Then Fondant

Decorating By sweetsbyjen Updated 26 Jun 2009 , 4:15pm by Bluehue

sweetsbyjen Posted 26 Jun 2009 , 1:12am
post #1 of 14

I have been seeing Ganache Crumbcoats used under Fondant instead of buttercream and i am pretty interested to find out exactly how this is done. (how many layers etc.)

I am looking for a smoother texture for my fondant and my buttercream just isn't cutting it anymore. I threw fondant accross the room earlier today because I was so frustrated. I'm usually pretty calm too. (i think it's been all the rain we have gotten in the northeast latley that's getting to me). Also how do you salvage your fondant after it is covered in buttercream( i put it on the cake, it rips so i take it off to start over), I try to "wipe" it off but it is just a mess, I really need help ladies!

If anyone has any ganache knowledge or a great white chocolate recipe, I would be very appreciative!

Thanks- Jen

13 replies
alidpayne Posted 26 Jun 2009 , 1:21am
post #2 of 14

Basic instructions: let your ganache set up. Spread it on the cake with a spatula. Smooth as much as you can. Dip spatula in boiling water, dry and smooth more. Let it set up overnight *or till it is completely set up* then cover with fondant.

It works really well. Perfectly smooth cake! It is also delicious!

alidpayne Posted 26 Jun 2009 , 1:22am
post #3 of 14

Oh, and as for a recipe, I usually just use 3 parts white choc. to 1 part cream. I also put a pat of butter in there, it tends to make it a bit firmer *and shinier if you aren't covering*

sweetsbyjen Posted 26 Jun 2009 , 1:35am
post #4 of 14

When you say let it set before applying to the cake, do you mean let it dry a bit so it's more like a paste?

gloria Posted 26 Jun 2009 , 1:41am
post #5 of 14

So, tell me - can you put ganache over top of fondant?

alidpayne Posted 26 Jun 2009 , 4:25am
post #6 of 14

When I say let it set I do mean to more of a paste consistency. You just want to be able to spread it on the cake without it running down and pooling. I usually make mine the day before, put it in the fridge, the microwave it in short bursts until it will spread. Once you have it perfectly smooth on the cake you want to let it set up completely. It should be firm to the touch if it is set up completely.

Gloria, I have no idea. I have never tried it. Not sure why you would want to unless you were going for that dripping look. If you try it let us know. I would say if you did try it maybe use a pouring ganache recipe instead of the spreading?

gerripje Posted 26 Jun 2009 , 5:27am
post #7 of 14

I am trying to find an awesome thread on here that was all about ganache under fondant. I know it's the preferred method for lots of people. I will post it when I find it, I thought I saved it to my favorites, but I guess not!!

icer101 Posted 26 Jun 2009 , 5:47am
post #8 of 14

sugarshacks dvd on topsy turvy cake.. she is showing this. it is wonderful.. she says the technique comes from austrailia.. can,t wait to try her method...

Bluehue Posted 26 Jun 2009 , 6:12am
post #9 of 14

Hello SweetsbyJen -
I have copied and pasted a page that i have on my cp from another forum - it has all you need to know about Ganache.
It is used widely over here in Australia and 90% of us prefer it under our fondant (medium) than BC.
There is a link also in the imformation below to Planet Cake should you wish to research further.

Once you have made it i am sure it will become a regular favourite of yours - as it is so very easy not only to make but use, and store.

Bluehue icon_smile.gif

Ganache

A variety of icing, fillings for pastries, and glazes. It is typically made from chocolate and cream.
Ganache is normally made by heating heavy cream, then pouring it over chopped, dark chocolate. The mixture is stirred or blended until smooth, and can be enhanced with liqueurs or extracts.
Depending on the kind of chocolate used (ie couveture or compound), cream should be adjusted to reach desired consistency. The portions of chocolate to cream vary depending on the intended usage of the ganache.
Typically, a ganache is equal parts chocolate and cream; this is used for filling cakes. For a chocolate truffle base, twice as much chocolate as cream is used. For making a glaze, one should use three times as much chocolate as cream. Ganache can also be cooled and whipped to increased volume and then spread to cover a cake.

Uses:
Icing, fillings, truffles and other desserts.
Some extra ideas for use:
Warm ganache up in the microwave to runny and pour over ice-cream
Vanilla cookies filled with ganache
Straight from the bowl

Tips:
Cheaper chocolate ie compound has a higher water content, so you may need more choc to cream to reach the desired consistency.

White chocolate is higher in milk solids so requires less cream again.

Most people seem to prefer to use Dark or White Chocolate of course you can use Milk Chocolate.

For our purposes a ratio of 2:1 or 3:1 (Choc: Cream) is recommended for using under fondant. More specifically:

Dark chocolate (Cadburys or Nestle) suggested 300mls cream to 600g choc
White chocolate (Cadburys or Nestle) suggested 360g choc to 150ml cream.
Callebaut (Couveture Chocolate) suggested usage may be 100mls cream 150g dark choc & 100mls cream 300g white choc
If using milk one member tried 300g chocolate and 1/2 cup shape milk and found it worked out quite successfully for them.

Types of cream people use:
- Pouring cream
- Any cream that says for cooking on the side
- Double cream


Caramel Ganache - Try adding Caramel Top n Fill to White chocolate ganache

You can also freeze ganache. It is good in the freezer for 2-3 months. (So dont panic if you make too much)


Planet cake method:
From what weve gleaned:
They start off by brushing the cake with a syrup (link below) and then put the ganache on the cake - fairly thickly, they use this layer to "spack-filler" any imperfections in the cake.
Once it has been refrigerated to set - they use a hot knife to run over all the edges to get an exceptionally smooth surface. (Hot knife, dip a knife or spatula into hot water, wipe dry then use heated knife on cake to smooth)
The BIG tip that they give on their forum - is to let the ganache SET for at least 12 hours (overnight) and I think this is just at room temperature (air-set) they don't have any trouble with their ganache melting under the fondant even in very humid climates and they put this down to the setting time.
Once set the ganache is brushed with the syrup again and a VERY thin layer of fondant is applied (looks like it is over about 1/4 inch thick!) gives lovely sharp corners AND able to cover odd shapes a lot easier!

Syrup Link
Suggestions from Planet Cake on Ganache and Food Safety http://www.planetcake.com.au/forums/viewtopic.php?t=239



How long do you leave to dry

If using the Planet Cake method suggested approx 12 hours / overnight to set.
Does it need refrigeration or do you let it dry in a cupboard?
Can leave dark chocolate out if below 19 degrees, suggested to keep white choc ganache in fridge. Also can put in fridge or freezer to set if you do not have a 12 hour window.
Can ganache be used as a filling
Yes, some people might alter the consistency, some dont.
Can ganache be used for icing cupcakes?
Yes, again you might like to make add a little less choc to get a runnier mix to dip the cupcakes or try whipping or piping with it a slightly stiffer consistency

How do you make fondant stick to it once its set?

You can:
- brush with syrup
- spritz with water
- brush with some alcohol
- use sugar syrup with a dash of alcohol

What is the consistency that I should be looking for?

Its fairly runny when its warm but after its been standing for a while it starts to set a little, It will set completely in the fridge and then to spread it on you need to warm it a little in the microwave
Also you will find that when stirring together it may take awhile for it to come together don't panic, just keep stirring it will happen!

If it is pourable do you use a drip tray underneath - if it is spreadable what tool do you use?

You can use a palette style knife. If you pour it definitely use a drip tray. Spreadable really with most anything palette knife, knife, finger.

If the cake is white/vanilla - do you use milk/dark chocolate but wouldn't it effect the taste?

Yes it does effect the taste so you have to consider the flavour combination you are going for.If you use a dark chocolate and then fondant doesn't it show through (or do you make the fondant thicker?)
The standard thickness of fondant is usually fine, as long as you've let it set you are usually pretty fine.

Can I use ganache under BC?

It usually is replaces buttercream.
You can mix ganache into your Buttercream for another flavour combination. You can vary the ratio depending on whether you want it to be more ganachy or more chocolate butter creamy a 50/50 mix is pretty yummy.

Doesnt the cream go off when you leave the ganache out?

When you make ganache, you boil the cream, this alters the structure of the cream and once you add the chocolate to it can be kept much longer, you can pretty much ignore the use by date then. You can keep it out of the fridge as well, just think truffles, which is basically what ganache is, if it overly bothers you add a little liquor as this acts as a further preservative. You should still practice safe food practices at all times.

If you want to hear it from the other "professionals" - it has been a topic on Planet Cake forum as well http://www.planetcake.com.au/forums/viewtopic.php?t=214

How do you make whipped ganache?

You make it, let it cool varies from 10-15 minutes on the bench to 6 hours or so in the fridge (you experiment), then whip it till it holds. If wanting to whip some thats been in the fridge for a couple of days, either bring to room temperature or soften with a couple of short stints in the microwave.
Whipped ganache is lighter and less dense, it also goes paler in colour due to the incorporated air and doesn't stay glossy.

JulyMama Posted 26 Jun 2009 , 6:53am
post #10 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerripje

I am trying to find an awesome thread on here that was all about ganache under fondant. I know it's the preferred method for lots of people. I will post it when I find it, I thought I saved it to my favorites, but I guess not!!




Is this the thread you mean? It's a good one, and the one that made me decide to use ganache under fondant
http://cakecentral.com/cake-decorating-ftopict-629106.html

mclaren Posted 26 Jun 2009 , 8:32am
post #11 of 14

i used ganache under my fondant for the first time for my father's day cake, and would like to declare that i'm seriously thinking of using ganache all the way for all my fondant cakes in the future.

Bluehue Posted 26 Jun 2009 , 12:03pm
post #12 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren

i used ganache under my fondant for the first time for my father's day cake, and would like to declare that i'm seriously thinking of using ganache all the way for all my fondant cakes in the future.




Yayyy another *ganache convertor* - thumbs_up.gificon_smile.gif

Bluehue icon_smile.gif

sweetsbyjen Posted 26 Jun 2009 , 1:04pm
post #13 of 14

I can not thank you enough bluehue for all your help, i am usually afraid to post new topics for i find it irritating when people post questions without researching first. I looked for a while and couldn't get all my questions answered so i am so glad you included this for me.

Next week is my birthday so i will definitly be trying this method out then. I figure if I screw up, the cake is for me and my family so it won't be a big deal!

I have a feeling I will be converted!

Thanks again, and I'll let you know how it goes!

Bluehue Posted 26 Jun 2009 , 4:15pm
post #14 of 14

Your very welcome SBJ -
It can be a bit daunting when trying a new method for the first time -
I am sure you will not only enjoy how easy it is to make/use but love the taste also.

Yes, please let me know what you think of it -
So as i can add you to the colunm of *the converted* icon_wink.gificon_lol.gif

Bluehue icon_smile.gif

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