Well, I make 5,000 wedding cakes a year! And I ask for payment 3 years ahead of time -- no, make that 5!

Seriously -- just kidding -- not taking sides. It looks like there are regional differences in payment time. It's interesting to learn that.

I've taken business seminars (geared towards crafspeople/artists) that state if you keep getting shorted, you probably are marketing to the wrong segment. The idea was if you run your business with a sense of integrity and trust, you will attract clients with this attitude.

Treating customers well does pay off. I have a very loyal customer base, because I give very kind terms to clients who are referred. New customers pay a deposit, and once they return, they pay on receipt. I say things like "I am very fortunate to have great customers," when I get a new one. Corny? Maybe. But the psychology is this: you are asking them to be on their best, Boy-scount honorable behavior. And you know what? They WANT to measure up. Really, it works 99% of the time.

And, yes, I have policies in place to protect both myself and my clients (return or new). I have gotten shorted on a few -- a very, very few-- orders -- and I don't take any referrals from those people. (I always work into the conversation, "so how did you hear about me?")

Would this work for a business with a high amount of desitnation weddings, etc.? Probably not.

And for CEO's -- yeah, they probably don't complain about one small customer -- but an account that represents 10% of their business, sure.

That's what golf courses are for.

I ask for payment 4 weeks before the event and it's not because I can't pay for my supplies. I always have enough in my account to buy supplies for at least 4 cakes. I have my payment policy so I don't have to deal with bounced checks after I deliver a cake... and I have the ability to extend their payment date if needed. I accept credit cash, checks, and all major credit cards. Do what you are comfortable with. I am a small business... I can't deal with a $700 bounced check the way a larger business could. I am however lenient with payment due dates. I am more than happy to extend the due date if they pay in cash or certified check and I have even allowed return customers to pay on delivery, but only a select few. I have never had anyone balk at the payment policy. The price maybe, but never the payment policy. I ask for a $200 deposit (non-refundable) to book and the balance is due 4 weeks before your event date.


Late payments are a part of the deal, but venting about them should be okay here. The majority of us here are small (very small) business owners, and we see markably less clients that the bigger business owners on here. If you do 25 weddings a year, a few clients with non-payments is a bigger problem than if you are doing triple that. We also don't have revenue coming in from other sales. No one wants to deal with non-payment, but when you think about $700 in the terms of someone making 17,000$/year, that's close to 5% of their gross sales in one order... it's a HUGE difference compared to someone making 700,000K where you are looking at .01% of your gross sales. We all started somewhere and I look forward to the day when I can look at the prospect of losing a few $700 checks and think little of it. I know money is money no matter how much you make, but you know what I'm getting at.

Editting to add that normally I have a lot more than "supplies for 4 cakes" in my account, but that is the bare minimum. I am not a big business at all... down right small potatoes in the grand scheme since I am a one woman show for now. Baby steps though...

Look.. get mad at me if you want, but the " When I got married..." defense sounds a lot like my grandfather who used to complain that when he was young he could fill his gas tank for the change in his pocket. It's self defeating and irrelevant.

You can't do business with YOU, so what you did doesn't matter. Modern brides spend too much, IMO. They use credit, and sometimes they have to wait for another paycheck to roll in to make their final payment. Getting your knickers all up in a twist over this is just wasted energy.

If it's bugging the OP chasing the bride down, get a bigger deposit. We get a sizable deposit upfront because it discourages cancellations. It is also early in the process when they haven't spent every penny of the wedding budget to pay off the caterer bill that got 3 times bigger because they couldn't not invite their entire kindergarden class and gosh they just had to have that groovy cheese fondue fountain, ' cause you know bridesmaid Mimi is a vegetarian and she needs to have something to eat.

If they bride cancels...Whoopee!! I just made my profit and I get to go home early that weekend. I ask for the balance 10 days before the wedding ( my longest order deadline), but have taken payment 18 hours before the wedding because that's when mom was getting into town.

I don't see any possible justification for getting payment 30 days in advance. It would seem that was asking for trouble. 1 month out is typically when brides have to pay off their dress, so they can get their alterations started. It's right at the time most of them have to pay off their honeymoon cruise. It's a bad time to ask for money. On top of that, is she really going to make the cake 25 days ahead ?

I have a great idea. Every bride that doesn't pay 30 days ahead... cancel their cakes and have them call me. I'll take payment the Monday before the wedding and drive the cake out to Hickory, no problem. My husband likes to go to our mountain house.

I have my website set up to accept payments to avoid the "check in the mail" excuse. If we're exactly at the 2-week deadline, I tell my brides they will have to pay online. If they have the money in their checking account, there's no reason to balk at it. A debit card is attached to the same checking account. Sending mail within my city used to take 1 day to receive. For some reason, it now can take a week or longer. It takes less time for my family to receive something from me 800 miles away. Therefore, I won't accept checks being mailed only 2 weeks or less before the wedding.

As for the 2-week or 30-day payment deadline. Thirty days seem to be the norm for most transactions in the wedding industry and other types of businesses. I personally do not like the 2-week policy. I only implemented it because it was the standard here when I started my business a few years ago. However, I plan to change it because it does cut things close when brides think nothing of delaying their payments. Because I have a decent cash flow does not justify a bride taking it upon herself to extend the payment deadline or for me to have to accept her terms. I strongly disagree that a 30-day policy is a sign of a cash management problem. If a bride is getting married, she should have her budget well planned ahead of time and should not require additional time, even down to the wire, to pay her final balance. That's nothing short of irresponsibility. In my opinion, it is bad policy to conform your business to your clientele. They should conform to your policies and abide by your contract. Letting your brides dictate how your bnusiness is run is bad business practice. The OP has a good policy in place that works for her. Every industry has its share of non-payers, whether they have a 2-week, 30-day, or 60-day policy. I think it was a little out of line to accuse the OP of needing to change her business policies rather than the bride needing to be more responsible in the scenario mentioned.

Now what a business name that would be!!

I don't think anyone is mad at you Kat (maybe jealous.. I know I am a bit... LOL)... I just think it's different for a small (and I do mean small) business owner to look at the prospect of working on a cake and not getting paid for it. If you take both of our scenarios into account... me who only has that one wedding cake that weekend, and you who has probably 3 weddings, many smaller dessert/birthday cakes, grab and go desserts, gelato, and a lunch service... it is a lot different for me to not know that I will be paid for my work. You don't get paid for a 150 serving wedding cake you are out $150 for supplies and your payroll for the time spent on that cake and you still make money that day. I am just out $150 for supplies and my time(and I am being very general on the cost of production I know there are utilities involved as well but for the sake of argument I am keeping it brief). I actually took an order for a very last minute cake this year and recieved payment at the drop off. I was nervous as all hell, but I did get paid.

I am extremely happy for you that you are at the point where you can take that gamble... I am just not there yet. I would hope that you know that I respect you and your point of view in this business. As business grows I will re-think my payment policy, but for now I need that assurance. It hasn't hurt me so far... but like I said... I do make exceptions.

I just typed "cake chick" into the browser, and there's already someone who's taken the domain name. "cakebitch" is obviously also registered, but it redirects you to another website!

By the way, I also do a 30-day payment, but I'm flexible on it if they're still totally unsure on their guest count. I think that 30 days is the standard around here.

Snarky, what else do you do besides wedding cakes? Do you have a storefront that does more full-service stuff? Your gross is a little more than mine is , and I do around 120 weddings a year, so I'm just curious (and nosy.)

My cousins used to call my mother "the gingerbread lady", and not because she made gingerbread. She always had fresh-baked cookies in a container in the cabinet, and everyone was welcome to them.
"Nibble nibble like a mouse, who is nibbling at my house?"
Just some levity here!

I always have brides plan for the low end and if they need extra we can always add it on. I have never had a problem with brides needing to downsize their cakes.

Snarky has a store front and serves gelato and has a full service bar along with a catered lunch service... Sugarland bakery in NC in Chapel Hill. A gorgeous place too from what I have seen in pictures... just gorgeous. She's living her dream (and dealing with the big stress of it all). She comes off brash, but she knows what she's talking about. (look at me sounding like her cheering squad... )

Might I be so nosey as to ask what you ask for a deposit? A percentage vs a fixed sum? I was asking for 50% but people seemed to not be lovin' that so I took it to $200 to book. That is, in most situations, more than enough to cover supply costs since I rarely am presented with requests for cakes more than 200 servings.

I have most of my policies ironed out, but I struggle to find the best option for down payment. I have my 30 day policy so I can have the option of waiting until 2 weeks before the date to get stern. I email a reminder if they go past date and then we can work out a plan. I don't threaten no cake until we hit that 2 week mark and then they can only pay with cash or credit card.

Well i'm just a home baker- (i do it b/c i love it not to support myself)and i haven't had a problem with this but my husband and i own a debt collection agency... just a thought for thoes of you who have had problems

I am glad there are big business owners on here who offer their advice....most of the time it is very much appreciated.

One thing I have a hard time with though, if a bride doesn't have the money 30 days out, how is it better for her to push it at 2 weeks? IMO - I would think things would be getting worse, not better in that time crunch.(??)

I have also had several clients who have paid for the cake in full at the time of the tasting - which is many months out. Is that a problem in the long run - it hasn't been for me, but maybe I am in the dark?

So your brides give you a non-refundable deposit without tasting your flavors, and not knowing what their cake will look like? Wow! Personally, if I were the bride, I would not do business that way, but I guess it works for you! I am what I call a "hobbyist wedding planner" I have helped many of my friends and family with wedding planning, simply because I love it. I don't charge them, it usually ends up as my gift to them, but all the vendors I have ever dealt with require payment at least thirty days in advance. That's just my experience. I think it's nice for the bride and groom to have all the financial issues finalized that far ahead, and not have to worry during those last hectic weeks.

Yes, but Debi, I LIKE it that they think they need more cake than they do...I end up with a bigger deposit in house, which in the end, makes the bill they have to pay right before the wedding smaller, better for everyone.

Most of my bookings are at my tasting events, so I just don't have time to sit there and kanoodle over design details with brides. I usually have 12 to 15 appointments that day.

I also just hate hate hate cakes that aren't symmetrical, so I do hate to pull out the 10 inch when the design demands the 11 inch round. ( Yes...call me anal. I have every round and square pan size from 1 to 22 inches.)

Our system works well for us. Between myself and one other person who takes orders we are able to schedule about 2500 total cakes a year. We've never not been paid, and only missed 10 or so delivery times but more than 5 minutes.

I do the same as you Debi with the head count. I give them the 60-70% estimate and they can choose to order what they think is good. I tell them to aim low and we can add if the low end isn't going to be enough.

$1.50/serving up front isagood idea... it'd be a little less than I'm getting now on the low end and a little more on the higher end. Tastings are still one on one for me since I can't justify a group tasting just yet, though I have been toying with the thought. I don't ask for flavor decisions until the final payment is due and all design changes must be nailed down by then as well.

Thanks for sharing how you do things.

I think the OP is still perfectly legitimate on her policy and on her upset. Comparing a huge company like an electric company to a small bakery isn't fair--the CEO doesn't worry about nonpayments because there's an entire department of people who have that job. (Have any of you ever been contacted by one of those types? They sound like they spend their lives being pissy, they do!)

Besides that, there is the bride's reaction to this to consider. It doesn't matter whether it's 30 days or 14; if the bride is refusing to respond to attempts to be contacted, does she really deserve an extension? It's not like this bride has called up and said, "I need to extend my payment deadline because my father's in the hospital/my paycheck is late/whatever other reason" and the OP went "NO! HAHAHAHAHA, YOU GET NO CAKE NOW! "

I do not see that this bride, in particular, deserves to have any kind of extension at all, which some people have failed to note was actually given--until Weds.--because this bride has made it clear through her actions that she does not care about the baker, the baker's policies, or the contract that she signed.

A lot of people seem to be forgetting that there are two sides to every transaction, and BOTH need to be taken into account.

You're right Varika. Working with a client that requests an extension on payment deadline is one thing, a client completely ignoring e-mails and phone calls is entirely another.

Obviously I'm not such a tight a$$ that I wouldn't wait a day or two past the deadline if there was an emergency or problem, but don't ignore me just because you don't want to pay your damn bill when it's due.

When there is a detailed contract signed by all parties, there should be no reason to have to chase people around at the last minute looking for payment.

BTW, both of my kids are in my niece's wedding this coming October. My DD ordered her dress in April and 50% was due at the time of order. The balance is due 45 days before the wedding date. Before they'll put a hem up.

My sister was telling me that the photographer, florist, venue and limousine company all required 50% down at the time of booking.

This isn't just "back when I got married" this is here and now. Brides around here ARE cutting back on their budgets because of the economy. You're lucky if their not in your area, although I thought you(Snark) said they were in an earlier post.

I respect your business advice Snark, but let's keep it professional so that people don't get insulted. The business forums are here to help each other out, and I'd hate it if people were afraid they're gonna get a "lickin" if they vent about what might be perceived as the "wrong" topic.

There are many business owners here, large and small. We can't all have the same policies, we all do what works best for our situation and area that we live in.
Home business vs. storefront bakery are two very very different entities.

Edit to fix my horrific spelling errors, hope I caught them all

How about reading the paragraph about payments to the bride and have them initial it to make sure they understand?

I do something similar to this, but my clients have until 2 weeks before there event to pay up. (This way, they can plan their payments according to when they get their paycheck.)

Prefacing this to say that I am so hormonal/menopausal today, and this snobbish attitude just annoys me to no end...

Hmm Snarky, in my opinion anyone who would be willing to take payment even up to the event, and in any form possible, seems more financially desperate than the baker who stood by her contract, required payment 30 days prior so if the clients do default she has time to book another cake on that date.

Holding out for any payment, even up to delivery seems much more financially unstable.

If the customer thinks that little of your services, why bend over backwards to accommodate them just because they are getting married, so what. Just because someone is getting married they get to be excused from being responsible? I think not.

Respect gets respect PERIOD, and it is obvious that you have little to none for many of your fellow bakers. Your apples to oranges comparision of business you used to try and make a point completly falls flat due to the fact that you were comparing apples to oranges. It is a percentage game baby, not an individual incident game. One non-payment, when a small baker has turned away even one other potential client because they booked that day can be a big deal, and generally is, to their annual bottom line.

Okay we get that you own a large bakery, we get that you hate that NC allows home bakers to be legal, but to insinuate that one of them is being unethical or financially unstable because she is upset due to the fact that she is dealing with a large number of no pays and late pays is down right offensive. The only honest thing you spewed from your initial post is that you are being true to your demeanor and CC monacre.