Furious About Late Payments

Business By cakesbyamym Updated 24 Jun 2009 , 2:52pm by cakesdivine

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snarkybaker Posted 22 Jun 2009 , 10:00pm
post #31 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakesbyamym

I've been in business for myself...a successful and growing business...for 3 years. I do 25-35 weddings per year, in addition to staying busy with other orders. I'm doing fine, and have no plans to adjust my business ethics and policies. In addition, I have to turn away orders/weddings due to health complications. I'm doing just fine.




Okay, got it, you don't do very many weddings, then it's really not an issue. Helping people who need a little extra time to pay you off isn't unethical...it's nice.

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loriemoms Posted 22 Jun 2009 , 10:20pm
post #32 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkelly

I think everyone's policy is their business. Do what you're comfortable with.

Around here payment in full 30 days before any event has been industry standard since I was married over 25 yrs ago. I know, we paid for our own wedding..........and we didn't need to charge it on a credit card either. icon_smile.gif That's just wrong............. icon_rolleyes.gif

angelcakes...........you hit the nail right on the head!




I had a bride once how had all her credit cards figured out on which one would pay for what. I thought to myself man, that is sad, entering into a marriage so much in debt.

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indydebi Posted 22 Jun 2009 , 10:23pm
post #33 of 96

I know a number of caterers who ask for a headcount confirmation and final payment 30 days prior, which has always kinda bugged me because most brides dont' have their RSVP's back by then and they have no idea how many people will confirm as coming.

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indydebi Posted 22 Jun 2009 , 10:26pm
post #34 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by loriemoms

I had a bride once how had all her credit cards figured out on which one would pay for what. I thought to myself man, that is sad, entering into a marriage so much in debt.


I had a young co-workers who had no problem telling anyone who would listen that she maxed out 7 credit cards for her wedding. And that didn't count the new furniture they bought on credit and the new car, etc.

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sweetsbystacy Posted 22 Jun 2009 , 10:43pm
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Regardless of whether or not YOU agree with the contract the OP was talking about, the bride agreed to the terms when she signed it. End of story.

OP, you have nothing to feel guilty about if someone can't get their ducks in a row. It would be one thing if she's even attempted to contact you to discuss it, but obviously she hasn't.

I don't have time to babysit clients, I have kids of my own, thank you very much.

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jaybug Posted 22 Jun 2009 , 10:51pm
post #36 of 96

Sweeysbystacy, I couldn't have said it any better! My thoughts exactly! thumbs_up.gif

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Ruth0209 Posted 22 Jun 2009 , 10:54pm
post #37 of 96

Wow, it sounds like someone is sucking on a lemon drop today. It sounds like the OP's 30-day policy is working fine for her.

If you want to talk about being nice, you shouldn't suggest someone's financial practices are sketchy or marginal just because you don't like their payment policy. That's a pretty broad generalization, it seems to me.

And sweetsbystacy is right. The bride agreed to it. If she didn't like it, she shouldn't have signed the contract.

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varika Posted 22 Jun 2009 , 11:10pm
post #38 of 96

I agree with others: your policy seems perfectly fine to me and the bride deserves no consideration, since she has given you none. It's not as if she's called and asked for an extension; she's ignored the need to pay for the final product.

If she doesn't have a cake for her wedding, it's her own fault. Snarkybaker, it's not UNETHICAL to insist on payment for product, either!

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snarkybaker Posted 22 Jun 2009 , 11:10pm
post #39 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth0209

Wow, it sounds like someone is sucking on a lemon drop today. It sounds like the OP's 30-day policy is working fine for her.

If you want to talk about being nice, you shouldn't suggest someone's financial practices are sketchy or marginal just because you don't like their payment policy. That's a pretty broad generalization, it seems to me.

And sweetsbystacy is right. The bride agreed to it. If she didn't like it, she shouldn't have signed the contract.




Sorry if you feel that way. I didn't say they were " sketchy" or " marginal". I said they were indicative of a company that didn't practice good cash management, which they are. It is also totally unprofessional to get "furious" over late payments...Do you think the electric company CEO sits and fumes and vents to his little CEO buddies when your electric bill is late ? Nope....it's business, that's all.

Obviously her policies aren't " working for her" or she wouldn't have posted about how " furious" she is. I merely suggested that she may want to consider doing business in way that would make it easier for customers and gave her the reasons she should consider it.

But what do I know? I only did 130 weddings last year and grossed a little over $700,000.

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indydebi Posted 22 Jun 2009 , 11:18pm
post #40 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by snarkybaker

But what do I know? I only did 130 weddings last year and grossed a little over $700,000.


icon_lol.gificon_lol.gif Good one!! icon_lol.gif

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aligotmatt Posted 22 Jun 2009 , 11:45pm
post #41 of 96

I used to do the 2 week thing, but I changed it to 30 days, so that I COULD work with brides. I know it sounds really strange, but when I had the 2 week thing, someone would be late, so I would contact them and let them know that I did not receive their payment on time... and then I would most likely end up getting their payment the wednesday before the Saturday wedding! That is just not enough time for me to properly process the money. It has nothing to do with my cash flow or money management, but I want their check to be cleared before I present them with a product.

And really, I COULD have canceled people, and it would not have been my problem, but at the 2 week mark, they couldn't get an acceptable cake, and I would feel bad... I know I know, suck it up, that's business...

But with the 30 day thing, the people are late, I remind them, and I get the payment by 2 weeks prior, it processes fine... I have to say I think it's funny because I kind of make a little deal out of working with them, and they are so grateful and thankful for letting them pay a little late.

In my contract it does say something like, "if the final payment is received late, your order may be canceled at our discretion or will incur a late fee in order to re-instate the contract"

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cakesbycathy Posted 22 Jun 2009 , 11:55pm
post #42 of 96

Snarkybaker, I wonder if perhaps you could have phrased things a different way, instead of insulting everyone who happens to have in their contract payment is due 30 days before the wedding.

That's what is in my contract and I certainly do not have any cash flow or money management issues.

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Deb_ Posted 23 Jun 2009 , 12:03am
post #43 of 96

I would expect a large business to be able to be a little more flexible with their client's payments then a small business can.

You really can't compare the cash flow of a store front bakery with many employees to a single licensed home baker. It's apples and oranges.

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varika Posted 23 Jun 2009 , 12:03am
post #44 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by snarkybaker

I didn't say they were " sketchy" or " marginal". I said they were indicative of a company that didn't practice good cash management, which they are.




I really would like to understand why, because if that's all it takes to indicate bad cash management, every vendor in my area has bad cash management. I always just thought it meant that the business would like to be sure that they have another chance to get some business for that date if you decide that you're not going to pay.

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indydebi Posted 23 Jun 2009 , 12:18am
post #45 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkelly

I would expect a large business to be able to be a little more flexible with their client's payments then a small business can.


I wouldn't agree with this. A large business has high overhead and larger monthly bills; usually on-staff employees (compared to mine, who has a "as needed" deal with employees) which means regular payroll (which has to be paid whether anyone buys anything or not).

They may be bigger and have a larger income, but they usually have larger bills that go right along with that. If you're going to look at the big picture, then you have to look at the WHOLE big picture ... not just the income part.

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Unlimited Posted 23 Jun 2009 , 12:30am
post #46 of 96

[quote="snarkybaker But what do I know? I only did 130 weddings last year and grossed a little over $700,000.[/quote]

Maybe someone can explain this to me (if I understand correctly, this thread is about "wedding cakes", not catering as well), so if I did 130 weddings last year and grossed $700,000 based on an average of 150 serving wedding cakes that means my per serving price would be almost $36. ea! Whew! Maybe I need to move... cakes certainly don't sell that high around here.

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Deb_ Posted 23 Jun 2009 , 12:34am
post #47 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by indydebi

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkelly

I would expect a large business to be able to be a little more flexible with their client's payments then a small business can.

I wouldn't agree with this. A large business has high overhead and larger monthly bills; usually on-staff employees (compared to mine, who has a "as needed" deal with employees) which means regular payroll (which has to be paid whether anyone buys anything or not).

They may be bigger and have a larger income, but they usually have larger bills that go right along with that. If you're going to look at the big picture, then you have to look at the WHOLE big picture ... not just the income part.




Indy I'm simply referring to snark's comment........ "Do you think the electric company CEO sits and fumes and vents to his little CEO buddies when your electric bill is late ? Nope....it's business, that's all."

The electric company is the "large" business I was referring to. I probably should have done the "quote" thingy so it would have been more clear. (People must be typing at lightening speed, cuz I expected my post to show up under hers.)

My second sentence was referring to the $700k comment........storefront/home baker.......apples and oranges, really not a fair comparison.

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loriemoms Posted 23 Jun 2009 , 1:30am
post #48 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth0209

Wow, it sounds like someone is sucking on a lemon drop today. It sounds like the OP's 30-day policy is working fine for her.

If you want to talk about being nice, you shouldn't suggest someone's financial practices are sketchy or marginal just because you don't like their payment policy. That's a pretty broad generalization, it seems to me.

And sweetsbystacy is right. The bride agreed to it. If she didn't like it, she shouldn't have signed the contract.




That is so true! I mean, if you go into a car dealership and they say you hve to pay 10% interest on your car loan, and you sign it, then you have to pay it. Even if the interest rate is unreasonable, you still have to pay it. You made that decision...and the bride made the decision to pay it!

We have bakers in our area that charge a 50% none refundable deposit and many brides pay that!! I also had heard of many caterers in our area that charge a 100-200 dollar deposit, and it just well, empty money or whatever you might call it, it goes towards NOTHING. Its just the bride paying for the priviledge of using that caterer. And brides sign up for it. So if you want to ask for payment 30 days, 60 days, a year before the wedding, and brides are wiling to pay it, then more power to you!!

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loriemoms Posted 23 Jun 2009 , 1:34am
post #49 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by indydebi

Quote:
Originally Posted by loriemoms

I had a bride once how had all her credit cards figured out on which one would pay for what. I thought to myself man, that is sad, entering into a marriage so much in debt.

I had a young co-workers who had no problem telling anyone who would listen that she maxed out 7 credit cards for her wedding. And that didn't count the new furniture they bought on credit and the new car, etc.




That is part of the problem with these young people today! We have a ton of houses "bank owned" in our area now, as I always wondered how these young couples who are barely out of college can afford a house I could never afford fill it with furniture and drive BMWs. I hope the newer generation has learned that you cant spend spend spend...

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indydebi Posted 23 Jun 2009 , 1:40am
post #50 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by loriemoms

We have bakers in our area that charge a 50% none refundable deposit and many brides pay that!! I also had heard of many caterers in our area that charge a 100-200 dollar deposit, and it just well, empty money or whatever you might call it, it goes towards NOTHING. Its just the bride paying for the priviledge of using that caterer. And brides sign up for it. So if you want to ask for payment 30 days, 60 days, a year before the wedding, and brides are wiling to pay it, then more power to you!!




"Um," she said, as she slowly raised her hand from the back of the room. icon_rolleyes.gif "I get a 50% deposit on my catering, which means when they hand me that $2000 or $3000, it's mine forever."

I used to only ask for a $200 deposit, but for reasons listed in the "Lessons Learned" column, I trashed that policy and implemented the 50% plan.

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angelcakes5 Posted 23 Jun 2009 , 2:06am
post #51 of 96

Umm about the electric company - you dont pay they shut off your electric, you dont pay your mortgage - forclosure, and so on. IF they dont pay for the cake on time - no cake at all. The electric CEO's dont complain to other CEO's. But this forum is to help and vent and get ideas and encouragement.

Also wanted to say that I got married 8 years ago and we paid cash or everything, and it wasn't something just thrown together. My father always told me if you dont have the money for something then you dont need to buy it. My sister was married 3 years ago and yup cash for everything again. Why pay for a wedding 8 years later. Not worth it.

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in2cakes2 Posted 23 Jun 2009 , 2:13am
post #52 of 96

I got married this past October and my husband and I paid for it ourselves so I thought I would chime in with a recent wedding. All of our balances were due 30 days before the event and they are some of the busiest wedding vendors in the area, so maybe it just depends on what your area standards are. By the way my husband had been laid off for 3 months by then but we had saved enough for our wedding so we weren't "strapped" for cash or waiting for an extra paycheck just to pay for everything and I made alot of the stuff myself. IMHO I think maybe alot of people sign contracts nowdays and don't take seriously or don't read what's in them and then are shocked when something in the contract is enforced. I recently read a post from Indydebi about a bride that she had to e-mail her no refund policy to her twice. BTW Indydebi I mean you no disrespect I usually hang on your every word, sorry.

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Ruth0209 Posted 23 Jun 2009 , 2:41am
post #53 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by indydebi

Quote:
Originally Posted by loriemoms

We have bakers in our area that charge a 50% none refundable deposit and many brides pay that!! I also had heard of many caterers in our area that charge a 100-200 dollar deposit, and it just well, empty money or whatever you might call it, it goes towards NOTHING. Its just the bride paying for the priviledge of using that caterer. And brides sign up for it. So if you want to ask for payment 30 days, 60 days, a year before the wedding, and brides are wiling to pay it, then more power to you!!



"Um," she said, as she slowly raised her hand from the back of the room. icon_rolleyes.gif "I get a 50% deposit on my catering, which means when they hand me that $2000 or $3000, it's mine forever."

I used to only ask for a $200 deposit, but for reasons listed in the "Lessons Learned" column, I trashed that policy and implemented the 50% plan.




Uh, oh. You better be careful Debi or you'll be accused of having poor cash management practices for "needing" 50% up front to go buy supplies for your catering. icon_wink.gif

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indydebi Posted 23 Jun 2009 , 2:46am
post #54 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by in2cakes2

BTW Indydebi I mean you no disrespect I usually hang on your every word, sorry.



Not sure what you're referring to so I guess that means we're still friends! thumbs_up.gif

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Kitagrl Posted 23 Jun 2009 , 2:57am
post #55 of 96

I usually just take $50 down but if they don't pay the balance on time, they don't get cake. Sounds like my contract is easier than most...oh well, if it breaks, I'll fix it!

I did have one lady late, and I was too nice. Not doing it again. Especially because if the bride knows for three months when her payment is due, why should an extra three days make a difference?

My only question is....what if the bride mails a check on the due date? What is your policy?

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Deb_ Posted 23 Jun 2009 , 3:20am
post #56 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitagrl


My only question is....what if the bride mails a check on the due date? What is your policy?




If you're referring to final payment I accept cash or certified check only.

I've never had the "check is in the mail" excuse yet, but if it comes up I guess I'd wait a day and if it's not in my mailbox the next day they're telling a little white lie since all of my brides are local and it wouldn't take more then a day to get to me.

I think it's just important to remember that we all have contracts for a reason..........to protect us as well as the consumer. We just need to enforce them.

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Texas_Rose Posted 23 Jun 2009 , 3:40am
post #57 of 96

I think maybe what the OP meant by "furious" is that she's tired of spending so much time having to act as a bill collector. It's understandable...what a waste of your creative energies having to track someone down and remind them for the third time that they need to pay you.

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chefjess819 Posted 23 Jun 2009 , 4:10am
post #58 of 96

holy cow snarky! icon_eek.gif lay off of the OP! her policy is her policy. different strokes for different folks is all i can say. as for a credit wedding/new age wedding i am 23, have no cards to my name, and am saving for however many years it takes for me to have the wedding i want without going into debt. on the 30 day thing....i don't even charge for my cakes usually, and most of the time my cakes are in sketch form by a month ahead of time, paint program at 3 weeks, supplies by 2 and so on...you call it bad money management, i call it very good BUSINESS and TIME management. btw..have you not read any other forum topics where they are just on a soapbox venting about a client??? getting tired of everyone biting each other's heads off over something other than the topic at hand. ok...i'll step off my own box now (no i didnt pay for it 30 days in advance icon_lol.gif )

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Etchlain09 Posted 23 Jun 2009 , 4:35am
post #59 of 96

Just a thought, maybe you should check the "read receipt" box on your emails, that way you'll know if she's reading it. Also, a certified letter via snail mail might be helpful.

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Gefion Posted 23 Jun 2009 , 5:29am
post #60 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by snarkybaker


But what do I know? I only did 130 weddings last year and grossed a little over $700,000.




I snorted my tea icon_lol.gif

What a shame that good business advice is always taken as an insult on this forum. If one is confident in one's business plan, one shouldn't feel the need to get pissy on an internet forum.

... said the woman, who demands payment from her students no later than 7 days after signing up.

However I do understand the frustration of non-paying clients. I know many small business owners and a few hundred dollars lost can really hurt them the first few years. Especially in this economy, even though it's not as bad in Denmark as in the States.

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