rkljazz Posted 11 Jun 2009 , 7:31pm
post #1 of

I had a cake tasting with a couple several months ago. The bride told me what she liked and I drew a sketch of a cake. She kept the sketch then later on she told me they hired somebody else cheaper. They got married a couple weeks ago and I saw a picture of the final cake - it was my exact design! I know there's no copyright on my drawing - but sheesh!

35 replies
Kimmers971 Posted 11 Jun 2009 , 7:37pm
post #2 of

I'd be calling that bride and telling her exactly what I think of what she did. If I could get the name of the baker that did the cake, they'd get a call too.

How RUDE icon_mad.gif

indydebi Posted 11 Jun 2009 , 7:42pm
post #3 of

If a bride brings me a drawing, how am I suppose to know where it came from? Do you sign and date them? Lots of brides bring them "their" sketches and there is nothing on there to indicate it's anything other than what a bride sketched up.

So I may be guilty. And if I got a call from another decorator going down my throat for it, I'd tell them where to get off.

If the sketch is identified, that's a whole different story, and no, I wouldn't duplicate it. But take it a step further .... nothing stops a bride from describing the drawing to me. I don't have to look at the drawing and I could end up making that cake.

I think the answer is ... don't release your sketches.

DDiva Posted 11 Jun 2009 , 7:51pm
post #4 of

No deposit and contract?? No sketch.

yamber82 Posted 11 Jun 2009 , 7:57pm
post #5 of

omg! what a byotch!

notjustcake Posted 11 Jun 2009 , 8:02pm
post #6 of
Quote:
Originally Posted by indydebi

If a bride brings me a drawing, how am I suppose to know where it came from? Do you sign and date them? Lots of brides bring them "their" sketches and there is nothing on there to indicate it's anything other than what a bride sketched up.

So I may be guilty. And if I got a call from another decorator going down my throat for it, I'd tell them where to get off.

If the sketch is identified, that's a whole different story, and no, I wouldn't duplicate it. But take it a step further .... nothing stops a bride from describing the drawing to me. I don't have to look at the drawing and I could end up making that cake.

I think the answer is ... don't release your sketches.





yeap icon_biggrin.gif

panchanewjersey Posted 11 Jun 2009 , 8:04pm
post #7 of

Not cool at all. But you shouldn't have given her the sketch. You could've said if your interested come back and I will make the cake for you. Thanks!

tinygoose Posted 11 Jun 2009 , 8:06pm
post #8 of
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDiva

No deposit and contract?? No sketch.




Yeah, people are clueless when it comes to this sort of thing. I think if she knew what she was doing was wrong, she never would have called and told you. If they're not ready to book, but want the sketch then charge a least a "design fee" say $100 non - refundable if they want to take the design offsite, then at least you're compensated if they do this, and they know that yes...this is business.

sugarlover Posted 11 Jun 2009 , 8:10pm
post #9 of

Never ever let anyone keep your sketches! My instructor expressed that so much because of what happened to you. But that's alot of nerve. They shouldve choked on the cake. We all live and learn.

DeeDelightful Posted 11 Jun 2009 , 8:14pm

We learn something new everyday...i feel protective over my sketches anyway, so it may have occurred to me not to let anyone have it, but i can see how that could happen to a baker. Everyone else is finding ways to make money, so why shouldn't we charge for sketches, consultations, cake tastings and cake??? Car dealerships charge for diagnostics and no telling what else.

jammjenks Posted 11 Jun 2009 , 8:15pm

I am more surprised that she TOLD you about it.

Criola Posted 11 Jun 2009 , 8:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by yamber82

omg! what a byotch!




Couldn't have said it better myself! lmao

mixinvixen Posted 11 Jun 2009 , 8:25pm

i'm not saying it's right, but i can't say that i wouldn't have done the same, truthfully...as a non caking bride, i knew nothing about "cake courtesy", so if i met with someone and got a price, they gave me the sketch they had come up with, i fell in love with it, but then found a subsequent bid cheaper, i would pass over that sketch to the baker that had won the bidding war.

don't jump on the bride as being rude, because she doesn't eat, sleep and breathe cake like we do. she's price shopping, which is only common sense and shouldn't offend you.

take precautions from now on to do as the others have suggested and what i do myself...no money, no sketchy!!!!!!!!! i demand compensation for my "artistry"...la-ti-dah! icon_redface.gificon_lol.gif

3GCakes Posted 11 Jun 2009 , 8:25pm

Yeah....If I were a potential car company designer...and they asked me to create a sketch for a client.....I wouldn't let them have the sketch.

indydebi Posted 11 Jun 2009 , 8:29pm

I dont' sketch, so I don't have the problem. But my question to you all: If you give the sketch to the bride, what is in your file and/or what do you use when you're making the cake? Or do you all have copy machines? icon_confused.gif

Win Posted 11 Jun 2009 , 8:30pm

So sorry. That's like being stabbed in the back, and it is probably one of those "duh" moments in terms of releasing the sketch without a commitment, but I'm willing to be the thought never crossed your mind. Chalk it up to a life lesson. (I hate those!)

DDiva Posted 11 Jun 2009 , 8:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by indydebi

I dont' sketch, so I don't have the problem. But my question to you all: If you give the sketch to the bride, what is in your file and/or what do you use when you're making the cake? Or do you all have copy machines? icon_confused.gif


Debi-
When I've given a sketch to a customer it was really for the florist. Back in the 'flowers between every tier' days. I would do a line drawing showing the space between the tiers. I do have a copier, but print them out on the printer using the scanner.

I don't offer sketches to clients, but I do sketch for my own use. Mostly so I can keep all the designs straight. Now, since I rarely follow a sketch to the 'T' it would hardly do the bride much good anyway. It just keeps me on track when it's midnight on Friday and I need (and don't have) a Red Bull!!

live2create Posted 11 Jun 2009 , 9:08pm

It is true how would any of us know who drew those sketches, but I so do understand how you feel, I did a sketch of a cake for a bride quoted like 3 diff. quotes because she wanted sheet cakes and many other things, I bent over backwards for her. I did like two free taste testing, even gave them a cake to take back to the families to try. (I know dumb) They were alwasy Johnny on the stop for FREE items,would even call ahead to make sure I had them done. The groom even tried getting me to throw in the grooms cake for FREE... Long story short I did give them my drawings, and havent heard from them since. I learned a good lesson. 1 Free taste testing, no drawings leave my hands anymore. you ask for more taste testing you have to pay
I am still kicking myself for this one. I wish they would call and say I have the job only to tell them SORRY I am busy. It just really hurts because you are more than willing to go an extra mile only for them to take five miles. Like I said lesson learned..

Nchanted1 Posted 11 Jun 2009 , 9:20pm

I used to sell cars for a living, and people always wanted the price and car info in writing so they could think it over. I used to do it, then my boss told me the only reason they wanted that was to take it to another dealer and get them to beat it. Same principle.

Bottom line, never release anything in writing until you have a nonrefundable deposit in hand!

wbs1969 Posted 11 Jun 2009 , 10:41pm

I just have to put my two cents in here.
I have been in this business for over 20 years,
I have owned my own cake business for 2 years.
I have heard this argument over and over again.
My take is (and this is how I do it):
- The sketch is part of the consultation/tasting/quote
- At the end of our consultation we give them the sketch and quote. There is no pressure. Our closing line is always "If you decide to use us, we require a 50% deposit to hold your date". If they are really interested we will hear back within a week.
If they take it to someone else, fine - It is up to the other decorator to duplicate it.
If they choose another baker it is because of one of two things, price or taste of cake.
If they want someone cheaper - fine, I'm not cheaper!
If they like another baker's cake better - fine, my cake is what it is!
My point is that I have already spent the time making the sketch (which is included in the consultation). Its water under the bridge - I have moved on to the next bride.
I don't think you have anything to GAIN by KEEPING your sketches and you are not LOOSING anything buy giving them up as you have ALREADY done the work.

Deb_ Posted 11 Jun 2009 , 11:33pm

I definitely wouldn't be mad at the other baker, how are they supposed to know where it came from?

Unless you specifically told the bride that you don't allow your sketches to be used by another baker, how is she to know?

It's really not the bride or baker's fault. Don't allow your sketches out the door if you feel this strongly about them being used by someone else.

I'd challenge any of you guys to try to make a cake based off of my "stick figure" sketches............they suck icon_biggrin.gificon_lol.gif

sugarlover Posted 12 Jun 2009 , 2:28am

there are alot of good points. Its really up to the person and they choose to handle it. But we all learn from our mistakes and move forward. I have bent over backwards for a client and when I give them the price I don't hear them anymore. I always say if Sams Club can do good luck to you.

steffla Posted 12 Jun 2009 , 2:47am

I actually do understand both sides of this argument. However, i would feel upset about someone having my sketch created by another baker. I was thinking, you can get a personalized stamp made at sites like vistaprint for just a few dollars if not for free. You can stamp your sketch (somewhere it cant be "snipped" off) before handing it over. That way, any decent baker would not duplicate without permission. Just a thought!

muddpuppy Posted 12 Jun 2009 , 1:13pm

"any decent baker would not duplicate without permission"

oK, so you've never copied a cake? Or borrowed a design for inspiration?? I think everyone here has taken inspiration from someone at sometime.

I'm quite sure, after looking through your photos, that I've seen several of those design elements before... It's what we do... I personally am on a mission to copy a Martha Stewart Cake this weekend.. Just for fun..
I think that the fault lies in giving the sketch to the bride, not in the baker copying the design...

jmo

CHoxie Posted 12 Jun 2009 , 2:31pm

I actually have paper for sketches that has a header and footer on it with my information. I guess I have not had this problem yet, suppose it could happen quite easily though.

Sorry to hear even so.

notjustcake Posted 12 Jun 2009 , 3:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wbs1969


My take is (and this is how I do it):
- The sketch is part of the consultation/tasting/quote
- At the end of our consultation we give them the sketch and quote. There is no pressure. Our closing line is always "If you decide to use us, we require a 50% deposit to hold your date". If they are really interested we will hear back within a week.
If they take it to someone else, fine - It is up to the other decorator to duplicate it.
If they choose another baker it is because of one of two things, price or taste of cake.
If they want someone cheaper - fine, I'm not cheaper!
If they like another baker's cake better - fine, my cake is what it is!
My point is that I have already spent the time making the sketch (which is included in the consultation). Its water under the bridge - I have moved on to the next bride.
I don't think you have anything to GAIN by KEEPING your sketches and you are not LOOSING anything buy giving them up as you have ALREADY done the work.




yeap I agree please at the cake tasting if you didn't like my cake please don't buy it!

If you go to someone who charges less than $2 a serving to replica my sketch
"good luck to ya"

I haven't had a bride who walks away with my sketches they haven't asked for it!

For the future I am going to keep this in mind is if they want to take the sketch with them then I would charge like $25 for it. They can have the sketch for free when they place their deposit and sign the contract about that!

chellescountrycakes Posted 14 Jun 2009 , 11:38pm

I have to agree with muddpuppy, --if the first person to do the pillow with a tiara cake had copywrited it and I couldnt do it-- I'd be screwed. LOL

but I also understand the OP's situation.

of course, even stamping it, heck, I trace out of color books all the time - take the elements I want, leave the ones I dont. my point is, with decent back lighting you can trace off a sketch, then take 'your' drawing to another baker. Unscrupilous people will do unscrupilous things... its the way of life...

achourn Posted 14 Jun 2009 , 11:43pm

Lesson learned for me. Keep the drawings.

montana618 Posted 15 Jun 2009 , 4:35am

Wow! Yet another thing I have learned from all of you! icon_biggrin.gif
No money-no sketch!!

umgrzfn Posted 15 Jun 2009 , 4:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Criola

Quote:
Originally Posted by yamber82

omg! what a byotch!



Couldn't have said it better myself! lmao



AMEN. But I agree with the others. What's to keep them from describing your sketch or something like that! I just wouldn't release it which is what someone else said, deposit/contract or not!

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