Any Ideas On What Happened?

Decorating By bobwonderbuns Updated 16 Jul 2009 , 3:20am by DreamCakesOnline

bobwonderbuns Posted 7 Jun 2009 , 12:29am
post #1 of 28

My cake teacher Karen and I were delivering 27 cakes to a wedding at a downtown Casino today. All the cakes were buttercream and six of them were in my frig, with others in frig's all over town. I get the cakes from my frig and drive to Karen's house 10 minutes away and low and behold, one of the cakes it looked like the border fell off, but upon closer inspection it seems that the buttercream actually peeled away from the cake. Fast forward to the actual delivery -- EVERY CAKE had this problem to a greater or lesser extent. Some were bubbled and bulging near the base border, some were cracking at the top on the side of the cakes. The funny thing is that the cakes themeselves were in tact and the crumb coat was taken away from the cake so the problem seems to be between the crumb coat and the cake proper. We didn't get any pix (she didn't want the reminder) and she was wondering if the new Crisco may have had something to do with this -- that's the only thing different in this experience from any cakes she's done. Soooo, any thoughts on what may have happened?

27 replies
kylekaitlyn Posted 7 Jun 2009 , 12:33am
post #2 of 28

I don't know. I'm very interested in finding out that answer myself.

KoryAK Posted 7 Jun 2009 , 12:38am
post #3 of 28

I'm not sure either as I don't use Crisco, but it sounds familiar with what other bakers on here were saying right after the TFF switch.

Eisskween Posted 7 Jun 2009 , 4:27am
post #4 of 28

It sounds like your icing needed to be thinned out a little more. Sometimes if it's too stiff it will peel away because it doesn't get properly adhered. Next time try adding another teaspoon or so of water to the icing.

jamison3boys Posted 7 Jun 2009 , 4:38am
post #5 of 28

The bubbles and bulges mentioned have happen to me on occasion and i find that it is usually occurs when the cakes warm to room temperature. I don't know what causes them, but it may be the same reason that air bubbles form under fondant. If anyone can explain the specifics of the would be a great help.

bobwonderbuns Posted 7 Jun 2009 , 1:36pm
post #6 of 28

I've worked with her icing before and it didn't seem too thin or too thick to me -- a great spreading consistency. It was the part about the frosting taking the crumb coat off the cake with it that got me! icon_confused.gif

Luvsthedogs Posted 7 Jun 2009 , 1:43pm
post #7 of 28

What icing did you use, and is the cake itself a new one for you?

bcake1960 Posted 7 Jun 2009 , 2:00pm
post #8 of 28

That is exactly what happened to me when they changed the crisco.. I started using Sweetex hi ratio shortening and have not had that happen I don't know if that is by quincedence or not but that is my experience.. Hope this helps... now I need to go check my cakes waiting for delivery this am.. what a dissapointment after all that hard work.. sorry that happened.
One more thought.. Were the cakes frozen or partially frozen when they were frosted?? sometimes the moisture from the condensation when thawing will create a bubble. I freeze my cakes (even overnight) I think it makes the cake moister (jmo) but I always thaw to room temp before icing.

bobwonderbuns Posted 7 Jun 2009 , 2:16pm
post #9 of 28

Cindy, the cakes were my teacher's, not mine. I helped her deliver and set up (and fix the problems.) She does freeze them when they are warm and thaw them to room temp before icing -- a trick she taught me and I use to this day.

I spoke to her last night and her thought was that it had to be the Crisco -- she's never had this problem before and the only thing new in this experience was using the "new" Crisco. The cakes themselves were structurally sound. I've had cakes in the past blow apart -- one from the cake baking too dry and me saturating it with a cake wash which didn't help any, and the other where the filling blew out from the center.

So at this point we're thinking it was the new Crisco -- she couldn't get her icing to crust either. Oh well, live and learn! icon_rolleyes.gif

bakingatthebeach Posted 8 Jun 2009 , 3:16pm
post #10 of 28

I use the Walmart brand all vegetable shortening and it works fine cause it still has the transfat in it. I havnt tried the hi ratio yet.

Unlimited Posted 16 Jun 2009 , 4:53am
post #11 of 28

Can I ask what flavor these cakes were?

Texas_Rose Posted 16 Jun 2009 , 5:37am
post #12 of 28

I had that exact problem this last weekend. The buttercream was under fondant so it didn't look too bad, but one side of the cake developed a large bulge at the base, and when we cut into it, the crumb coat had peeled off and ended up at the bottom edge.

In my case, I'm thinking it was the temperature outside. I used Indydebi's recipe which has always stood up well to heat, but it was really hot here yesterday and I don't have air conditioning in the car. I was using Walmart's generic crisco which still has the transfats.

bobwonderbuns Posted 16 Jun 2009 , 2:11pm
post #13 of 28

Unlimited the cakes were different flavors. There were 27 of them and some were white, some yellow, some chocolate and the like.

The cakes were delivered on a nice day but not overly warm day -- it wasn't overly warm that whole week she worked on them. Then we delivered them down to the Casino -- inside but I've never seen such a mess. And to see Karen cry like that, it broke my heart.

KSMill Posted 16 Jun 2009 , 2:53pm
post #14 of 28

I've had this same thing happen with Crisco (transfat free). When I switched to generic brand it helped a lot. I also add meringue powder to the buttercream to help stabilize it.

Unlimited Posted 16 Jun 2009 , 3:43pm
post #15 of 28

Aww, it breaks my heart too. Sorry the two of you had this experience. The only time I've experienced something similar was when the buttercream fell off of only the chocolate cake layer (I believe it's because choc cake calls for more oil which in turn, causes it to be more greasy and harder for the BC to stick to it). Since this happened to all of your flavors, I would tend to believe that perhaps the BC was a bit too dry to stick. Yes, the bulges near the base could indicate that the BC slid down because of the heat, but you mentioned that it wasn't a hot day and the BC was cold, so I'd guess the culprit was dry icing (bulges from gravity).

I hope you guys were able to recover from this mishap and repair all of the cakes at the venue.

The_Sugar_Fairy Posted 11 Jul 2009 , 12:35am
post #16 of 28

I just had this exact same problem a couple weeks ago with the icing bulging. I used a crisco-based buttercream and there was a large bubble right under the buttercream. I'm so hoping someone knows the answer to why this is happening. Someone suggested it could be the new Criso, but then someone else said they used a different shortening and it still happened. Could it be because we crumb coat and then put the cake in the fridge then put another layer of room-temp icing onto the cold icing? Any thoughts? I really don't want this to happen again.

gscout73 Posted 11 Jul 2009 , 4:57am
post #17 of 28

That happened to me the first and only time I used the new Crisco. I then went right out from store to store buying up every old crisco I could find.


The_Sugar_Fairy Posted 11 Jul 2009 , 11:02am
post #18 of 28

How do you know if it's the old Crisco or the new Crisco? Would I be okay then if I buy the one from Bulk Barn?

bobwonderbuns Posted 11 Jul 2009 , 5:40pm
post #19 of 28

The "new" Crisco boasts "0 Trans fats." The old stuff was loaded with 'em! icon_lol.gif

beachcakes Posted 12 Jul 2009 , 12:29am
post #20 of 28

"new" crisco has been around for nearly two years now. You likely won't find any old Crisco, and if you do, it'll be expired. I exclusively use the new crisco and have not had this problem. I also don't fridge my cakes, although sometimes I freeze fully cooled layers and thaw before decorating.
Maybe her recipe needs some milk to add some fat back in?

__Jamie__ Posted 12 Jul 2009 , 12:34am
post #21 of 28

The top 2nd reason why I refuse to use shortening based icings anymore. Period. Even after my latest try with a popular recipe in here. Happens too often. Peeling, exactly the word. Yuch.

DreamCakesOnline Posted 12 Jul 2009 , 12:59am
post #22 of 28

I'm wondering if it's condensation. If the cake is cold when it's iced, wouldn't it sweat against the icing and create wet cake under it? The oils in the icing are a sealant so the moisture can't get out but if there was too much moisture wouldn't it make it soggy instead of moist and the icing would just fall off of a soggy part of the cake. If it's around the base, maybe it's pooling at the base of the icing. Just a thought...

The_Sugar_Fairy Posted 15 Jul 2009 , 10:44pm
post #23 of 28

You know, I'm thinking that the condensation theory makes the most sense (Room temperature icing on top of cold icing).

The_Sugar_Fairy Posted 15 Jul 2009 , 10:47pm
post #24 of 28

You know, I'm thinking that the condensation theory makes the most sense (Room temperature icing on top of cold icing).

bobwonderbuns Posted 15 Jul 2009 , 11:54pm
post #25 of 28

The reason I don't believe it was condensation is because she's been freezing and thawing cakes for 20 years and didn't vary from it in any way and this has never happened before. I made a giant cupcake cake with the "new" crisco just to test the theory that it was that and the next morning the frosting actually fell off the top of the cake (and the cake was at room temp the entire time!!) icon_confused.gif When I use hi ratio shortening I have no problems with the frosting so I'm thinking it has to be this 0 trans fat nonsense. But that's just me... icon_rolleyes.gif

DreamCakesOnline Posted 16 Jul 2009 , 12:56am
post #26 of 28

Are you guys using 100% shortening or a mix of butter and shortening? I've been using zero trans fat for a couple of years and never had this problem with the exception of carved cakes with raw edges. I never freeze or refrigerate my cakes until after I ice them so I'm trying to figure out what's different from what I do... Maybe my mix is too dry. I use 2# of sugar, 2 T of meringue powder, 2 cups of shortening and about 6 T of water.

bobwonderbuns Posted 16 Jul 2009 , 1:01am
post #27 of 28

My buttercream is a mix of shortening and real butter.

DreamCakesOnline Posted 16 Jul 2009 , 3:20am
post #28 of 28

Then I'm not much help. I charge more for butter and my customers like the 100% shortening so that's all I end up selling. Maybe the butter has something going on with it that's reacting to the zero trans fat shortening...

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