Can Cream Cheese Frosting And Lemon Curd Sit Out?

Decorating By Bellatheball Updated 23 Apr 2009 , 3:20pm by CookiezNCupcakez

Bellatheball Posted 21 Apr 2009 , 1:41am
post #1 of 38

I'm thinking no but I'm having a brain fart. I'd like to cover a friend's birthday cake in fondant but she loves lemon cake with cream cheese/lemon curd frosting. It would have to sit out once the fondant is on (so overnight). Thoughts?

37 replies
mkolmar Posted 21 Apr 2009 , 2:09am
post #2 of 38

Sweet goodness, that's a big NO. It has to be in the fridge. If you want to cover the cake in fondant go ahead. Do this test.
Take a small ball of fondant and put it in the fridge. 24 hours later go back and check it. If it still looks ok, go ahead and put the cake in the fridge. If it doesn't look alright then cover the cake in plastic wrap the best you can and put it in the fridge.

Bellatheball Posted 21 Apr 2009 , 2:46am
post #3 of 38

Thank you! So, what am I looking for after 24 hours? To see if the fondant is sticky?

mkolmar Posted 21 Apr 2009 , 2:53am
post #4 of 38

Yes, after 24 hours. Do the test before the cake, obviously, so that way you know in advance.

(this is a trick per Colette Peters when I asked her about fondant in the fridge.)

cuteums Posted 21 Apr 2009 , 3:10am
post #5 of 38

Can the decorator's cream cheese frosting stay out for a few hours? How long before it needs to be refridgerated? I have been trying to get an answer on this for the last 2 days. I want to use it on carrot cake but I don't want to serve cold carrot cake, and if it is at a party how long can it stay out?

mkolmar Posted 21 Apr 2009 , 4:06am
post #6 of 38

it doesn't take long for a cake to get to a room temp usually.
You will get different answers on this one depending on who you ask. I would not have it out anymore than 2 1/2 hours but that's me and I'm paranoid.

cuteums Posted 21 Apr 2009 , 11:57am
post #7 of 38

Thanks. I'm paranoid too, that's why I've been asking. It's going to take about an hour to get to their destination, and then it's a bridal shower so figure another 2-3 hours before dessert. I think I am just going to use vanilla frosting. I'm sure it will taste just fine with the vanilla as opposed to the cream cheese frosting.

brincess_b Posted 21 Apr 2009 , 12:09pm
post #8 of 38

some cream cheese frostings are fine to sit out, like this one http://www.earlenescakes.com/icings.htm
xx

FromScratch Posted 21 Apr 2009 , 12:21pm
post #9 of 38

It actually takes a while for a cake to come to temp. It's not going to be anywhere near room temp after 2 hours if it's a big cake. A 6-8" might be pretty close, but a 10" and up will still be stone cold in the center and if it's a stacked cake it will take longer. Your lemon curd will be acidic enough to not immediately start growing bacteria (nothing will immediately grow bacteria).

msladybug Posted 21 Apr 2009 , 12:31pm
post #10 of 38

I don't put mine in the fridge and I have never gotten sick and it's never tasted funny.

newnancy Posted 21 Apr 2009 , 12:34pm
post #11 of 38

??? Can this recipe sit out...it sorta seems like regular fudge but I need to know for a wedding cake.....can anybody help?
Fudge Filling

Serves/Yields: 3 cups
Prep. Time:
Cook Time:
Category: Fillings
Difficulty: Easy


I use this as cupcake filling.

1 1/3 cups marhmellow creme
1 1/2 cups sugar
2/3 cup evaporated milk
1/4 cup butter (unsalted)
1/4 tsp. salt
3 cups semi-sweet chocolate chips, melted
1 tsp. pure vanilla extract
1/2 cup hot water

In a large heavy saucepan over medium heat, combine marshmellow creme, sugar, evaporated milk, butter and salt. Stir constantly and vigorously while bringing to a full boil and cook for 5 minutes, stiriing constantly. Remove from heat and allow to cool until "just" warm. Stir in melted chocolate until smooth. Add 1/2 cup hot water and vanilla. Stir until smooth. Cool until able to pipe into cupcake cavity. Mixture will be soft.
Thanks

brincess_b Posted 21 Apr 2009 , 12:36pm
post #12 of 38

i would sit that fudgey one out, but thats just me! depends how well it reacts to sitting out, some things will go a bit soft.
xx

underthesun Posted 21 Apr 2009 , 12:36pm
post #13 of 38

My lemon curd (at Easter) sat out for about 3 hours before being eaten. I didn't really worry about due to the acidity. Felt it would be safe as far as bacteria. However, I did not put it back in fridge after party and by the end of the night (7 hours), it had begun to soak into the cake a little. I knew we wouldn't eat anymore the next day so I left it out overnight. Definitely made the cake soggy (I dissected it out of curiosity - too bad I didn't have a petrie dish). icon_lol.gif

underthesun Posted 21 Apr 2009 , 12:46pm
post #14 of 38

I checked my Cake Art (CIA) book and they specifically say curd "fillings are not shelf stable and also can cause the cake to lose its shape if the filling becomes too warm".

newnancy Posted 21 Apr 2009 , 12:52pm
post #15 of 38

I made that "Fudge Filling" with a chocolate cake & everyone raved but I had refrigerated it & it was a little to firm......so you think a few days will be OK, do you think if will firm up being left out?

newnancy Posted 21 Apr 2009 , 12:56pm
post #16 of 38

brincess_b,
Did you mean sit that one out as in forget using it or just leave it out of the fridge?

Thanks,
Nancy

FromScratch Posted 21 Apr 2009 , 12:58pm
post #17 of 38

Curds, unless they come from a jar that specifically states they are, aren't shelf stable. I wouldn't leave lemon curd out for days. But for a few hours in a cake... it's not going to kill you. I would worry about your cake getting soggy before worrying about it making anyone ill... especially if your layer of curd is thick.

I wouldn't touch that fudge filling... too many ingredients when ganache will give you better results. icon_wink.gif You can leave ganache out for a few days too.

newnancy Posted 21 Apr 2009 , 1:18pm
post #18 of 38

jkalman,
Thank you so much.....I thought you had to keep ganache in the fridge...I would love to use wipped ganache for the filling.....do you have a fav?

mkolmar Posted 21 Apr 2009 , 1:44pm
post #19 of 38

Ganache can sit out for 2 days max, then in the fridge it has to go.
Curd of any kind needs to be in the fridge per ServeSafe.

mkolmar Posted 21 Apr 2009 , 2:01pm
post #20 of 38

I disagree with some of the advice. In the real world we all know that cakes need to sit out for events.

Lemon curd, curd for any type, doesn't matter how much acid it has, it will start to break down at 20 minutes and bacteria will form. It will look fine and taste fine but the bacteria level will be higher. People who are healthy will have very little chance of getting sick. Ever have a stomach ache that lasts for a little bit but no other symptoms? That's actually food poisoning in a healthy person where the bacteria level hasn't reached that really really high point. People with a compromised immune system or a young child can have severe problems with this since their immune system isn't up to par and the bacteria lingers in the intestinal tract. Anything such as a curd, after 4 hours needs to be thrown away if set out at room temp.

I took this information straight from my ServSafe book, just put it into my own words to trim it down or it would be 3 pages long. icon_lol.gif

FromScratch Posted 21 Apr 2009 , 4:18pm
post #21 of 38

For ganache... I take 1 cup of heavy cream and bring it to a boil in a heavy sauce pan. When it comes to a rolling boil remove it from the heat and add 8 oz of dark chocolate and let that sit for 3-5 minutes. Once it has sat stir it up until it is a smooth mixture and let it cool. if your room temp isn't too cold (like mine is right now.. brrr) you can just use it like any other icing, but if it is on the cool side it will set up too much, so just warm it slightly and you are good to go. icon_smile.gif

I had a long technical response typed up, but all I am going to say is this. If you follow proper procedures while making your foods... there will not be high levels of bacteria in them needed to start a colony large enough to make someone ill. The ServeSafe book is full of worst case scenarios. I don't advocate not using the information gained from it, but it will leave you feeling like everything you make will kill someone.

brincess_b Posted 21 Apr 2009 , 4:29pm
post #22 of 38

nancy, i meant sit on the counter. i am just guessing with the recipe you posted though, i would do that to my family, i wouldnt with a paying customer.
xx

mkolmar Posted 21 Apr 2009 , 5:20pm
post #23 of 38

no problem there jkalman. ServeSafe is full of worst case stories to make you feel scared to death. I follow it though because I've had more classes than that for food safety.
Where I live they follow it to the letter. At the race track they have their own HD on site at all times. They don't follow in that county the 42 degree but instead 38 degrees. The food at the track was tested by the HD and it was at 41 degrees. She made everything on the line be thrown away.
It was a hard day to say the least. That's why I'm super on top of it, to the point I sometimes drive others crazy. They even have the same criteria for baked good if they contain perishable items. They've been known to make bakeries throw cakes with filling away for the same reason even if they were to be picked up for orders.
Now in the next county over, they are not as strict but give warnings and write ups.

Bellatheball Posted 21 Apr 2009 , 5:52pm
post #24 of 38

Ok! So buttercream it is! LOL! Thanks everyone. I appreciate having so many of you take the time to answer.

newnancy Posted 21 Apr 2009 , 6:06pm
post #25 of 38

Thanks everyone for all the info, give me a lot to think about.
jkalman, Thanks for the recipe.

Is there a chocolate filling other than bc that does not have to refrigerated?

FromScratch Posted 21 Apr 2009 , 7:34pm
post #26 of 38

It's okay... I completely understand the position of the HD... they are there to protect the general public. History will show though that we managed to survive for MANY years without refridgeration and we'll be around a lot longer. After working with bacteria for a while, one gets comfortable with the fact that it is all around us at all times. It's all about the chain of infection. Handle your food properly, and take the proper sanitary percautions with yourself (handwashing etc) and the risk goes WAY down. It's not as ominous as the HD would have you think, but I am glad that they do their job. I don't want to come off as a HD hater... icon_lol.gif. I do appreciate your position and the fact that your HD is super strict. And I don't want to come off as one who doesn't follow proper protocol because I most certainly do. icon_smile.gif

Plus... once it's out of our hands, who's to say customers will even follow instructions? But that's a whole other discussion. icon_wink.gif

CookiezNCupcakez Posted 21 Apr 2009 , 7:48pm
post #27 of 38

Just add cream cheese to buttercream it will be fine thumbs_up.gif

JCE62108 Posted 21 Apr 2009 , 8:22pm
post #28 of 38

Ok Im really glad this topic got brought up. For my son's 1st birthday I wanted to do a carrot cake but I really didnt want to have to refriderate it because there will be just a few fondant/gumpaste decorations on it...Plus its going to be huge. lol.

So I looked at this recipe: http://www.earlenescakes.com/icings.htm

and its really just buttercream with cream cheese added....except they dont use butter in this recipe, just shortening.

Sooo...if I add butter, will that make it neccesary to refriderate it? This recipe is nearly exact to my normal cream cheese icing recipe except for that recipe calls for butter and no shortening.

So technically, no cream cheese frosting should have to be refriderated?

If I leave a package of cream cheese sitting out on the counter, does that go bad? Or does the addition of sugar and whatnot change the chemistry somehow?

Also...has anyone used this recipe from this link? Is it runnier than BC? When I made cream cheese icing before it was pretty runny, but I used butter and no shortening. Is there a way to stiffen it so that it can be decorated with more easily?

Thanks for bringing this question up!

PS. I dont know what the cream cheese frosting we use at work is made out of, but we dont refridgerate that either.

Ooocakes Posted 21 Apr 2009 , 8:39pm
post #29 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCE62108



Also...has anyone used this recipe from this link? Is it runnier than BC? When I made cream cheese icing before it was pretty runny, but I used butter and no shortening. Is there a way to stiffen it so that it can be decorated with more easily?




I don't know about the recipe you posted but if you do a search on CC for Decorator's Cream cheese... That one is really easy to work with and tastes yummy

Bellatheball Posted 21 Apr 2009 , 10:04pm
post #30 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by CookiezNCupcakez

Just add cream cheese to buttercream it will be fine thumbs_up.gif




Why is that the case?

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