Experimenting W/ A Ri+Bc Combo?

Baking By HeidiCrumbs Updated 14 Feb 2009 , 5:46am by Vivalawvegas

HeidiCrumbs Posted 11 Feb 2009 , 7:22pm
post #1 of 28

Has anybody ever done this? I am wondering if I cut down on the butter amount and add MP to harden it if it would flop or be OK. I just love them both for different reasons and would love to combine them somehow.

27 replies
lasidus1 Posted 11 Feb 2009 , 7:26pm
post #2 of 28

royal icing breaks down in bc, so really you'd just be adding more sugar to bc :/

whisperingmadcow Posted 11 Feb 2009 , 7:29pm
post #3 of 28

mmm....why do you want to combine them? What do you hope to get out of it? Would you use it for flowers, or icing? What qualities are you hoping will carry over from each?

I have never tried it, but would love to know what the end result would be...

HeidiCrumbs Posted 11 Feb 2009 , 7:34pm
post #4 of 28


Is it the difference in milk or water used to thin? Or does the MP do something to the butter? Because the only difference I can see is that there is milk instead of water in BC, and MP in RI and not in BC. OMG, I just confused myself!!!

And what do you mean by break down? Does it seperate or get curdled or oily? I'm just having a hard time picturing it I guess.

lasidus1 Posted 11 Feb 2009 , 7:36pm
post #5 of 28

it's the grease in bc that breaks it down. ri is just sugar, water, and mp really. what it does is just makes it a liquid mess when it touches bc. if you're looking for super hard decorations, the ri will never set up if it's mixed with bc.

HeidiCrumbs Posted 11 Feb 2009 , 7:38pm
post #6 of 28

Whispering, we must have posted at the same time!

I want the butter taste without using artificial butter "flavor" and the hardness of the RI.

I also wonder if for flooding purposes the butter would somehow mess up the smoothness or "flow?"

It just seems like there should be a way to do this, unless it's chemically impossible.

teasom Posted 11 Feb 2009 , 7:40pm
post #7 of 28

I have used the meringue powder buttercream off of the karen's cookies websitet has worked well for me on cookies. It dries hard enough to touch and stack, but still tastes good. I don't know what you are looking to accomplish with this combo, but maybe it will work.

HeidiCrumbs Posted 11 Feb 2009 , 7:42pm
post #8 of 28

lasidus, what would happen then if I made a buttercream, added MP and more milk to thin? Would it harden? I really just want a RI that tastes like BC.

lasidus1 Posted 11 Feb 2009 , 7:45pm
post #9 of 28

it should crust over that way i believe, but it will still be soft underneath the crust *which to me, is a good thing icon_razz.gif*

HeidiCrumbs Posted 11 Feb 2009 , 7:46pm
post #10 of 28

OMG teasmom! That is exactly what I am looking for! If I just Google that name will the website pop up?

I just basically want a BC that won't be as fragile to the touch for stacking or leaning them up against each other in a display case.

Do you flood with that recipe?

whisperingmadcow Posted 11 Feb 2009 , 7:48pm
post #11 of 28

Now that Lasidus mentions it, I remember one of my wilton books talking about making sure your mixing bowl didn't have any shortening on it when you start.

It probably has something to do with the fat from the shortening surrounding the sugar so not as much water can be absorbed. Just guessing.

You might just be stuck using some kind of flavoring...

maurerba Posted 11 Feb 2009 , 7:54pm
post #12 of 28

Here is the recipe from Karen's Cookies. I too have been looking for something that works like RI but taste like Toba's Glace. I hope this is it!

Meringue Powder Buttercream
1/3 cup water
3 T. meringue powder
1/2 cup shortening
5 1/2 cups powdered sugar
1 tsp. vanilla extract (use clear vanilla if you want a pure white icing)
1/4 tsp. almond extract

Beat water and meringue powder until stiff peaks form. Add shortening, sugar, and extracts and whip for 3 minutes. Store well covered.

Note: I have had a lot of problems with tiny lumps in this icing, which prompted me to experiment to see if I could eliminate the problem. My theory is that the lumps were being caused by the meringue powder mixing with the water and then drying on the sides of the bowl. So, what I came up with is this:

Sift half of the powdered sugar with the meringue powder, and place in the bowl of a large mixer. Turn on mixer (use whip attachment) and, while mixing the sugar, slowly stream in the water. Let it mix, until everything is incorporated. Avoid scraping the bowl down if you can. When stiff peaks form, add flavorings and mix well. Then add remaining powdered sugar and shortening and whip for 2-3 minutes more. Hopefully you will have a lovely, lump-free icing!

teasom Posted 11 Feb 2009 , 7:55pm
post #13 of 28


It's been awhile, I don't know if you can thin it down enough to flood with it or not.

maurerba Posted 11 Feb 2009 , 8:02pm
post #14 of 28

What Karen says about her recipe. I am going to try it on my Vday cookies.

"Meringue Powder Buttercream:
This is a cross between royal icing and regular buttercream. It has meringue powder so that it dries well, but it also has shortening in it, so it remains soft on the inside and doesn't dry out the cookie as much. This is the icing that I use the most. I like it because I think it tastes better than royal icing, and I can get almost as much detail with it. This icing, like royal, can be thinned down with water to make a glaze. The icing is stackable, and it can also be shipped, but it takes a little bit longer to dry completely. The biggest downfall of this icing is that it tends to bleed a little bit more than royal. You need to make sure your glaze is dry before adding the detail work. Even taking that into consideration, it is still my favorite to work with."

cookie_fun Posted 11 Feb 2009 , 8:19pm
post #15 of 28

I'm going to have to try this. I usually make vanilla RI for my cookies, but I really love BC flavor better. Good post!

leahk Posted 11 Feb 2009 , 9:40pm
post #16 of 28

i would love to try this icing. i would need to sub egg whites, since i can't get meringue powder around here.
does the shortening normally break down the meringue powder? is so will it break down the egg whites?

maurerba Posted 11 Feb 2009 , 11:26pm
post #17 of 28

I tried it! It has a nice flavor (with only vanilla) I did have to add about 1/2 C. more water to get it to a RI type consistency. It took color well and I was able to smooth fill my cookies with it. It does seem to take a lot more drying time than RI. I plan on putting details on later. Just wanted to update you!

HeidiCrumbs Posted 12 Feb 2009 , 7:28pm
post #18 of 28

maurerba-that's so cool that you tried it! The part i was worried about the most was flooding so it's nice to know that it worked! Please let us know in a few days how they look, like if they get spots or anything. And how the piping works. Yeah!

Melvira Posted 12 Feb 2009 , 7:51pm
post #19 of 28

That's an interesting recipe! I'm going to try it because I loathe the taste of RI but it looks beautiful and holds up perfectly!

KathyTW Posted 12 Feb 2009 , 8:24pm
post #20 of 28

It is so great that this thread got started.....I was kinda in the same boat as everyone else with the icing dilemma. So, based on needing to do a bunch of Valentine's Day cookies, I did a cookie experiment on Tuesday for this exact reason. This the first experiment I've ever done.....I hope it helps someone out there!!!

Here are my results (pictures below):

Recipe 1: Antonia74's "Royal Icing" (Green "S", White heart cookies)
Easy to make, takes 10 minutes in the mixer
Drys rock hard, crusts pretty quick
Can appear dry but it's just the top, really takes a while to dry
Drys to a "flat" appearance, not shiney at all
Don't care for the taste, just slightly better than plain RI
Takes color fairly well - needed quite a bit to make the green, couldn't get it dark enough though
Lots of air bubbles, raise to the top after letting icing sit in bowl for a little while, but still had lots of bubbles on the cookies.
Orignally very stiff, great for outlining. I added a little water to thin just enough to be able to cover the cookie without outlining (letters), I thinned a little more to fill in the hearts that were outlined.

Recipe 2: Tara1970's "Suagr Cookie Icing" (Red "C", Red Lips) (Notice the mis-spelling of sugar - makes it hard to find in the recipe section, so search for "suagr"!
Really easy to make, made by hand, I had to add more corn syrup
Drys hard but not rock hard, crusts pretty quickly
Can appear dry but it's just the top, really takes a while to dry
Drys to a "shiney" gloss
Tastes better than regular RI (still not my favorite)
Takes color very well
Still had air bubbles but not as many as #1, Bubbles also rose to the top of the container as it sat in the container.
After adding corn syrup to the original recipe, I covered cookies without outlining.

Recipe 3: Sweet Annie's Cookie Icing (White "H" and piping on lips) (See recipe below)
Really easy to make, made by hand
Drys hard but not rock hard, crusts pretty quickly
Drys to a "semi-shiney" gloss - kind of transparent to start - I added white coloring
Tastes awesome! So much better than RI
Takes color very well
Not very many air bubbles at all
Recipe as written was used to cover cookies without outlining.

On the letter cookies I covered without outlining. My most helpful tool was a damp 1/4" flat paintbrush. If the icing needed to be closer to the edge I pushed it with the brush, if the icing started to fall over the edge I pulled it back up with the brush. Worked like a charm. It also helped to flatten some of the higher spots as the icing was "melting" into itself.

I used all three icings "watered down" to brush on some of the cookies that were not completely flat or free of holes - all three worked very well.

All in all, I guess three things are really important when selecting which type of icing to use. Do you want it shiney? Do you want it to be rock hard when dry? What do you want it to taste like?

I didn't test the one icing/glaze that I use most often, that's Toba Garrett's Glace. It is similar to recipe #2, with the exception of almond extract, and it performs the same.

Recipe - I'd love to give someone credit for this recipe - but I can't remember where on the internet I found it.
Sweet Annie's Cookie Icing
3 lbs PS
3-4 heaping tsp. powdered egg whites
3/4 tsp clear vanilla
3/4 tsp. butter flavor
1/2 tsp. almond flavor
water to thin

Place 2 lbs of PS in mixing bowl, add powdered egg whites. Mix together and add about 1/2 c water or enough that the icing is somewhat thin. Add flavorings and then add the last 1 lb PS and enough water to get the right consistancy.

KathyTW Posted 12 Feb 2009 , 8:31pm
post #21 of 28

Sorry....the pictures didn't load with the message.
Also, the Pink Lips cookie is a mixture of #1 & #2

lasidus1 Posted 12 Feb 2009 , 8:35pm
post #22 of 28

wow that second one really is very shiny. thats pretty cool.

Adrienne0317 Posted 12 Feb 2009 , 8:46pm
post #23 of 28

Great info. Save

devorie Posted 12 Feb 2009 , 9:03pm
post #24 of 28

Thanks Kathy!

KathyTW Posted 13 Feb 2009 , 12:30am
post #25 of 28

You're welcome! Two more things of interest (maybe!!)
1. The Sweet Annie's recipe was found on CookieCrazie.blogspot. com I absolutely love her cookies !!
2. Today, while making some more cookies, using the Sweet Annie's icing, I didn't like how non-shiney they were and every little flaw was screaming at me....so I mixed some corn syrup into the icing to thin it and then painted on a thin layer over the original iced cookie....so far the flaws are all filled in and they are more shiney than before....I'll try to remember to post pictures of the "before" and "after" results tomorrow after it has dried completely.

HeidiCrumbs Posted 13 Feb 2009 , 1:20am
post #26 of 28

Nice! Thanks for the experimenting! I wish I could do more experimenting but with a two and three year old it's pretty hard to find time to bake my regular cookies, let alone try something that may not turn out, so you guys ROCK! icon_biggrin.gif Anyway.....

I would LOVE to have a shiny frosting too, lol, add that to my list for "perfect frosting." So is it corn syrup that makes it shiny? I have always hated the matte look of regular RI.

KathyTW Posted 14 Feb 2009 , 12:42am
post #27 of 28

Sorry I didn't get to post sooner, it has been a crazy "cookie" day here !
The syrup added to the icing helped the "glossy-ness" after it had dried overnight but not too much, it did help smooth the cookie out a little and hide most of the flaws (which is really what I was hoping for!!!).
Next tiime I need icing I'm going to try the one listed above just to see how it compares.
So many recipes, so little time!!! Hope everyone has a great V-Day.

Vivalawvegas Posted 14 Feb 2009 , 5:46am
post #28 of 28

This is just what I was looking for!

I hate the taste of RI but want to be able to stack/harden. I'm going to experiment tomorrow.

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