Do You Use "dragees"?

Baking By carleen2140 Updated 29 Jan 2009 , 4:21am by shiney

HeidiCrumbs Posted 27 Jan 2009 , 8:33pm
post #31 of 59

I personally eat them and would let my family eat them, but when I open for business I won't be using them. Can never be too safe when it comes to a stupid lawsuit and losing everything I own. It just sucks though becuase nothing can be substituted for those wonderful shiny silver balls. Some people have to spoil it for us all. icon_sad.gif

teswade Posted 27 Jan 2009 , 8:51pm
post #32 of 59

I never thought they were inedible. I use them all the time for cakes I bake for my family. They always pick them off. I pick them off too because I don't want to eat a piece of cake with a hard ball in it. I will however eat them by themselves. They haven't killed me yet!

msulli10 Posted 27 Jan 2009 , 8:56pm
post #33 of 59

I have silver liquid food coloring - does anyone know if that is also considered a risk????

HeidiCrumbs Posted 27 Jan 2009 , 10:33pm
post #34 of 59

I think there are some food colorings that have the metalic look that aren't "food safe." I don't have a website that confirms it all, but when I look online at Fancy Flours (one of my favorite websites) they have everything labeled if it's safe or should be used as a decoration. The ones that have a pearly sheen are ok, most of the metal looking ones seem not to be. I have some silver dust that I was going to mix with vodka to paint the silver part of my Christmas bulb cookies and that isn't safe. It just sucks.

MBHazel Posted 28 Jan 2009 , 2:22am
post #35 of 59

Okay Ladies! I just went down and pulled out my special dusts that I recently got from Sugarpaste.com (Beth Parvu) gold and silver powders that ARE FDA approved and did them with the lemon flavoring and they look really good.

The silver is true silver, but not that high gloss silver like the dragees are. But a very nice silver. (When this color is dusted there is a strong pearl effect.)

The antigue gold is a muted brassy type gold. What I would be thinking if I wanted an antique gold .

The regular gold is a true gold color, but, again, it is not the high shine like the dragees.

I would be happy with all of these on my cakes / cookies. With an added bonus of NO WORRIES!!!

I just went back to re-check and the colors held true. However, I did notice that the gold colors bleed a faint blue if you have too much flavoring.

-K8memphis Posted 28 Jan 2009 , 2:33am
post #36 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by TubbsCookies

I buy them at the local Co-op supermarket. What's the deal with them? Do they kill you?




Yes and their fumes will ignite so whatever you do don't light the candles!!!

(I'm totally b.s.ing ^^^ totally just kidding.)

MBHazel Posted 28 Jan 2009 , 5:09am
post #37 of 59

Quick update on my test with Sugarpaste.com FDA approved gold and silver dusts.

The gold only bled when I tested it on a paper towel. I re-tested on fondant and it looks perfect.

Hazel

-K8memphis Posted 28 Jan 2009 , 1:51pm
post #38 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by shiney

Very good question, Hipnot! I may have to try that....which begets the questions, if luster dust is edible, why not silver dragees




It's not edible. It's non-toxic. But there's some new kind (new to me) that is edible.

-K8memphis Posted 28 Jan 2009 , 1:52pm
post #39 of 59

The only thnk I ever worried about with dragees is someone breaking a tooth.

CookiezNCupcakez Posted 28 Jan 2009 , 4:47pm
post #40 of 59

So luster dust is not edible...? Good thing u told me b4 I went out and bought a bunch! Thanks

loriemoms Posted 28 Jan 2009 , 4:53pm
post #41 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonjovibabe

Oh good grief! That's such a load of codswallop - we've been using them in Europe for generations and they haven't killed anyone yet! Then again we don't sue people for nonsense (or much at all actually!), either!




I eat them all the time, I put them on cakes and people eat them, and nobody I know has died or gotten sick or anything. The amount of silver and gold in them is SO little, it aint gonna hurt you to eat them. They are HUGELY popular on cakes these days...

HeidiCrumbs Posted 28 Jan 2009 , 5:37pm
post #42 of 59

So do those of you who have a business sell items with dragees on them? Do you have to put a disclaimer on them "for decoration only" or "remove before eating" so that your butt is covered? Anything like that?

loriemoms Posted 28 Jan 2009 , 5:49pm
post #43 of 59

I never put any kinds of warnings, even with my gum paste flowers...(which are also sugar but really ediable)

From what I can tell, the FDA isnt really put dragees under the catagory of "food" so I don t know if you have to label them like you would cookies, etc

http://www.fda.gov/ora/compliance_ref/cpg/cpgfod/cpg545-200.html

shiney Posted 29 Jan 2009 , 1:47am
post #44 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by k8memphis

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiney

Very good question, Hipnot! I may have to try that....which begets the questions, if luster dust is edible, why not silver dragees



It's not edible. It's non-toxic. But there's some new kind (new to me) that is edible.



Now Luster dust isn't edible?? I didn't know that either. I use it and I think a lot of folks use it. I think mine is Wilton. Do I need to throw it out?

MBHazel Posted 29 Jan 2009 , 2:15am
post #45 of 59

Hi Shiney!!!

Before I learned this important info, I had brought a bunch of different dusts too. I took a class several years ago where the instructor discussed this at length. After that, I sidelined any that I had that did not specially say FDA approved food color. I had purchased the other for gumpaste flowers only anyway. At this point I will only buy ones that are approved. While they are NON-TOXIC I would just rather err on the side of caution.

If it doesn't say that it is approved I would be suspious that it is not. If I am not sure, I have e-mailed companies and asked before I purchased.

I don't run a business, it is a hobby for me.

I do think the FDA might be being a little over zealous, but for me, I try to stick to the rules. Hopefully, they will lighten up in the future.

-K8memphis Posted 29 Jan 2009 , 2:41am
post #46 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by MBHazel



I do think the FDA might be being a little over zealous, but for me, I try to stick to the rules. Hopefully, they will lighten up in the future.




The rules you say???

This is quite a bit of overkill to your statement but it's nontheless true stuff. So my point is just that dragees are the least of our worries yknow.

And this was actually in response to a discussion on trans fats and stuff that I just copied and pasted here fwiw. People were decrying shortening as if it were toxic waste and I was replying to that erroneous issue with the following:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Has it ever crossed your mind how many insect fragments and rodent hairs are in our wheat that we grind into flour? Mammalia excreta in the sesame seeds, etc? Drosophila eggs in the golden raisins? 35 per 8oz seems like a lot to me!

Or how many rats & mice ate on my popcorn before I eat it. How much insect filth is in peanut butter? The nutmeg's gotta go. There's poo in the mace & ginger. The cornmeal's crummy. Chocolate's got icky issues. Cinnamon's screwed. Apple butter, apricots and berries aren't too savory either.

And that's just what they are reporting as the non-hazardous levels. Seems like eating a few chemicals isn't so bad after all?



Then the following is from http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/dalbook.html#CHPTA


Quote:
Quote:



WHEAT FLOUR Insect filth
Average of 75 or more insect fragments per 50 grams
Rodent filth
Average of 1 or more rodent hairs per 50 grams

SESAME SEEDS Insect filth
Average of 5% or more seeds by weight are insect-infested or damaged
Mold
Average of 5% or more seeds by weight are decomposed
Mammalian excreta
Average of 5 mg or more mammalian excreta per found
Foreign matter

RAISINS, GOLDEN Insects and insect eggs
10 or more whole or equivalent insects and 35 Drosophila eggs per 8 oz.

POPCORN Rodent filth
1 or more rodent excreta pellets are found in 1 or more subsamples, and 1 or more rodent hairs are found in 2 or more other subsamples
OR
2 or more rodent hairs per pound and rodent hair is found in 50% or more of the subsamples
OR
20 or more gnawed grains per pound and rodent hair is found in 50% or more of the subsamples

PEANUT BUTTER Insect filth
Average of 30 or more insect fragments per 100 grams
Rodent filth
Average of 1 or more rodent hairs per 100 grams

NUTMEG, GROUND Insect filth
Average of 100 or more insect fragments per 10 grams
Rodent filth
Average of 1 or more rodent hairs per 10 grams

MACE Insect filth and/or mold
Average of 3% or more pieces by weight are insect-infested and/or moldy
Mammalian excreta
Average of 3 mg or more of mammalian excreta per pound
Foreign matter
Average of 1.5% or more of foreign matter through a 20-mesh sieve

GINGER, WHOLE Insect filth and/or mold
Average of 3% or more pieces by weight are insect-infested and/or moldy
Mammalian excreta
Average of 3 mg or more of mammalian excreta per pound

CORNMEAL Insects
Average of 1 or more whole insects (or equivalent) per 50 grams
Insect filth
Average of 25 or more insect fragments per 25 grams
Rodent filth
Average of 1 or more rodent hairs per 25 grams
OR
Average of 1 or more rodent excreta fragment per 50 grams

COCOA BEANS Mold
More than 4% of beans by count are moldy
Insect filth
More than 4% of beans by count are insect-infested including insect-damaged
Insect filth and/or mold More than 6% of beans by count are insect-infested or moldy
NOTE: Level differs when both filth and mold are present
Mammalian excreta
Average of 10 mg or more mammalian excreta per pound

CHOCOLATE AND CHOCOLATE LIQUOR Insect filth
Average is 60 or more insect fragments per 100 grams when 6 100-gram subsamples are examined
OR
Any 1 subsample contains 90 or more insect fragments
Rodent filth
Average is 1 or more rodent hairs per 100 grams in 6 100-gram subsamples examined
OR
Any 1 subsample contains 3 or more rodent hairs
Shell
For chocolate liquor, if the shell is in excess of 2% calculated on the basis of alkali-free nibs

CINNAMON, GROUND Insect filth
Average of 400 or more insect fragments per 50 gram
Rodent filth
Average of 11 or more rodent hairs per 50 grams

The Food Defect Action Levels

Levels of natural or unavoidable defects in foods
that present no health hazards for humans
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

INTRODUCTION
Title 21, Code of Federal Regulations, Part 110.110 allows the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to establish maximum levels of natural or unavoidable defects in foods for human use that present no health hazard. These "Food Defect Action Levels" listed in this booklet are set on this premise--that they pose no inherent hazard to health.

Poor manufacturing practices may result in enforcement action without regard to the action level. Likewise, the mixing of blending of food with a defect at or above the current defect action level with another lot of the same or another food is not permitted. That practice renders the final food unlawful regardless of the defect level of the finished food.

The FDA set these action levels because it is economically impractical to grow, harvest, or process raw products that are totally free of non-hazardous, naturally occurring, unavoidable defects. Products harmful to consumers are subject to regulatory action whether or not they exceed the action levels.

It is incorrect to assume that because the FDA has an established defect action level for a food commodity, the food manufacturer need only stay just below that level. The defect levels do no represent an average of the defects that occur in any of the products--the averages are actually much lower. The levels represent limits at which FDA will regard the food product "adulterated"; and subject to enforcement action under Section 402(a)(3) of the Food, Drug, and Cosmetics Act.

As technology improves, the FDA may review and change defect action levels on this list. Also, products may be added to the list. The FDA publishes these revisions as Notices in the Federal Register. It is the responsibility of the user of this booklet to stay current with any changes to this list.





I mean if a little rat poop won't kill yah neither will a coupla dragees. Everything in moderation, no?

MBHazel Posted 29 Jan 2009 , 2:53am
post #47 of 59

Trust me!! I do think it is all a little crazy, but it is what it is. If I were running a business I would be concerned about the possible liability. People can make a claim against most anything.

On the other hand, I have seen cake supply stores that have it all mixed together and don't provide the info. How is anyone to know?

I think everyone has to decide for themselves. (I am overly cautious by nature) I have eaten a lot of dragees, metallic jordon almonds (not sure if you can still get those) in my days and I am still here. I also have not turned BLUE from the silver. (Like the guy on the Today show)

As for the surprising little bits of protein we all get in processed food... well, I remember first hearing that years ago in a civics class... it hasn't gotten any less yucky over time!!!!

I didn't mean to alarm anyone. Just trying to share what I had heard.

Hazel.

-K8memphis Posted 29 Jan 2009 , 2:59am
post #48 of 59

Yes I'm with you. I'm just saying once again the rules ride the teeter totter depending on which side puts the weight down huh.

California >> rat poop normal, dragees not so much. icon_lol.gif

MBHazel Posted 29 Jan 2009 , 3:08am
post #49 of 59

You made me laugh K8!!!!

I have seen instructors draw on fondant with a pencil, use tracing paper (non-toxic) etc. The dusts are so expensive most of us use as little as possible anyway.

The stuff that give the "shine" has been used for years throughout the world, if it were truly harmful no one would touch it.

I agree that it is over-kill. I hope they change things soon... I love the little silver balls on cookies!!!

HAzel

shiney Posted 29 Jan 2009 , 3:09am
post #50 of 59

K8, I'm kinda wish'n you were a little more inept with your research! That is quite enlightening!! You know, there's just some things that you'd rather be kept in the dark about! icon_wink.gif (Now, where's that vomit emoticon?) I always think, well, I'm wearing gloves, clean outfit, hairnet, and I'm always worried about a stray hair, I wash my hands (gloved or not) if I touch anything other than a cookie whilst decorating, and you KNOW folks at Burger King and KFC ain't half as conscious of cleanliness as I am, and millions more folks are eating their food than my little ol' confections!

MBHazel Posted 29 Jan 2009 , 3:13am
post #51 of 59

Shiney, that is SO right. Think of what they put you through to open your cake business and yet let all kinds of other things slide.

It must have to do with lobbyist.

We need a Cake lobbyist!!!!

Hazel

andrea7 Posted 29 Jan 2009 , 3:25am
post #52 of 59

Dragees at one time actually were lead based. I read an acticle in the early 90's about dragees being pulled of the shelves in America. My sister ate bottles of dragees in the 80's and atribute my sisters nuttiness on the dragees. Brain damage from dragees, poor Vanessa. It explains alot!!!!
Andrea

MBHazel Posted 29 Jan 2009 , 3:27am
post #53 of 59

Oh! Well that does explain a lot now, doesn't it?

-K8memphis Posted 29 Jan 2009 , 3:32am
post #54 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by shiney

K8, I'm kinda wish'n you were a little more inept with your research!




Whoops, I'll work on that er...not work on it. icon_lol.gif

But again, I think the liability lies more with the potential for a broken tooth.

I mean California is certifiably nutso with the requirements they have for stuff.

I used to sell boat paint. I mean who cares about and who knew about boat paint. Well It's really expensive but in California it's so much more expensive because of all the stuff they can't use in it. (Like the rest of us normal people with boats that is.) >>> that's making me laugh.

And I bought a can of stop fray for material. o. m g. the twilight zone-ish list of all the stuff that was gonna happen to your liver and other internal parts if you dared to get one whiff of this stuff was so scarey I would not even keep it in the house. There was a number on the can so I called thinking why on earth did I even buy this stuff??? And it was all cause of California craziness.

I mean I'm sure some of that stuff is well intentioned but give me a break is all I can say. I used the stop fray time and again and my liver is fine thank you very much. I mean I think it's fine. I mean what with all the rat poop in there a little stop fray would probably be a good thing.

jamiekwebb Posted 29 Jan 2009 , 3:32am
post #55 of 59

Why not just inform the customer, be it by word of mouth or on the order contract, that silver and gold dragees should be removed before eating. Leave it up to them and if they are normal, and have already eaten a ton of these things in their life like normal people, they will probably eat them anyway. at least you will have done your part though.

-K8memphis Posted 29 Jan 2009 , 3:37am
post #56 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiekwebb

Why not just inform the customer, be it by word of mouth or on the order contract, that silver and gold dragees should be removed before eating. Leave it up to them and if they are normal, and have already eaten a ton of these things in their life like normal people, they will probably eat them anyway. at least you will have done your part though.




Oh please no more little paragraphs to initial on those overgrown contracts.

icon_biggrin.gif

jamiekwebb Posted 29 Jan 2009 , 3:49am
post #57 of 59

Honestly, I don't use a contract but I know alot of people do so I just thought..... How about a little business card thingy that you could send with any cake that uses those dragees that says they should be removed. I would rather still be able to use them but cover my backside and leave it up to the customers discretion.

sarah0418 Posted 29 Jan 2009 , 3:53am
post #58 of 59

I totally agree with K8. Our Christmas cookies as kids ALWAYS had the draggees on them...we fought over the ones with them and I am perfectly healthy and have no apparent lasting effects. And as for all the rat poop in our food...don't forget all the wonderful things that are ALLOWED to be in our meat. I have a friend who worked in a meat packing plant for a few years. He shortly became a vegetarian due to things he saw icon_eek.gif.

shiney Posted 29 Jan 2009 , 4:21am
post #59 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrea7

Dragees at one time actually were lead based. I read an acticle in the early 90's about dragees being pulled of the shelves in America. My sister ate bottles of dragees in the 80's and atribute my sisters nuttiness on the dragees. Brain damage from dragees, poor Vanessa. It explains alot!!!!
Andrea



Aww Bless! nothing like sisterly love icon_razz.gif

Quote by @%username% on %date%

%body%