Gifted And Talented

Lounge By diamondsonblackvelvet13 Updated 29 Dec 2008 , 7:02pm by -K8memphis

diamondsonblackvelvet13 Posted 17 Dec 2008 , 10:32pm
post #1 of 24

Good news! My DS brought home a note today that said he had been recongnized as Gifted and Talented. This after 4 years of me telling them that! He is 10, in the 5th grade, reads at an 9th grade level, and comprehends some college material. His vocabulary is amazing! He also has mild ADD.

My two issues (HELP) are these:

He has problems in math...I don't know how (or what) to help him with. Then again, I might be the wrong person to help...I stink at math! How do I approach his math teacher and ask her for help then try not to look at her blankly b/c I don't get it either???

The other area he (we icon_redface.gif ) need help in is organization. We are a family of packrats (mostly paper that kind of thing) and I know this will hurt him in the future. Do I organise it for him? Let him figure out a system or what???


Please help me help him! I know he can go far but I dunno where to start!

23 replies
mbelgard Posted 17 Dec 2008 , 10:51pm
post #2 of 24

For the math remember that not all gifted children are gifted in all areas. If your son is working at grade level in that subject there isn't a problem, if he's below level maybe you could look into a tutor to help him.

My oldest is a year behind your son but is reading at probably an 8th-9th grade level right now with a vocabulary that surprises most adults. In math however he does well but isn't above grade level.

Organization isn't a problem that we have so I can't help you there.

Amia Posted 17 Dec 2008 , 11:06pm
post #3 of 24

I was GT in school and I suck at math. Give me any other subject and I can excel, but math..uh uh. Don't worry if he has one area where he struggles. I don't think the teacher will find it strange either.

Anyway, this is really exciting. Congrats to your son!

-K8memphis Posted 17 Dec 2008 , 11:16pm
post #4 of 24

There are classes for organizational skills offered at local community colleges--well worth it, the continuing education classes.

Math isn't easy for most of us. You have to get a teacher who thinks like you do--not easy. It's luck of the draw...so I don't have any great ideas for you. Except maybe to have peer tutoring set up in advance on an as needed basis.

dldbrou Posted 18 Dec 2008 , 12:20am
post #5 of 24

Kids learn by example. If you say that you are a family of packrats, then that is his example and he doesn't know any difference unless taught. There are professional organizers that give great advise on organizing offices and it could be applied to kids. Get Four containers and label them. Label them Trash, Active (needs to be worked with, Homework, projects, etc), Notes for test, and Important. You might come up with better labels. Then have him put the papers daily in the appropriate box. Of course the homework box is double checked daily to make sure all work is complete. Make sure he is working with you when you set it up because if he is involved from the beginning, then he will keep it up on his own with pride. An incentive also helps. Good Job on recognizing his assets and weaknesses.

barbaranoel Posted 18 Dec 2008 , 12:52am
post #6 of 24

My son was recognized as gifted and talented 3 yrs ago. He is currently in 5th grade and when tested this fall he reads at the tenth grade 3rd month level.

When he tested in the OAT (Ohio Acheivement tests) He tested in all subjects in the 97th percentile nationwide (better than 97% of the other 5th graders in the country)

He is VERY disorganized. His school makes them change classes - not stay in the same room all day. He could not get it together at all. Did not turn in his homework, bring home his homework, take his stuff to classes, etc....

After a conference with his teachers (yes, all 6 of them at one time icon_eek.gif ) We decided on getting him a binder with folders for each class and they wrote a list and taped it inside his locker what he needed at what time he needed it.

Things has gotten much better, we monitor his grades on a daily basis and we sign off on his homework everyday.

Do not be ashamed to ask a teacher for help. They are very happy to help an involved parent.

Barb

costumeczar Posted 18 Dec 2008 , 1:37am
post #7 of 24

Boys are generally less organized than girls, and the gifted ones are the worst! My son's teacher suggested that we keep a file box at home with one folder for each of his classes, then clean his backpack out every night. The papers he needs to keep for tests or future reference go into the folders, and everything else gets recycled right away. I'm a semi-reformed packrat myself, so I have to fight the urge to keep everything, but as long as you do this every night and don't let it build up it becomes a habit and it won't be too bad.

It also prevents the occasional "Oh, I was supposed to give you this last week to sign" moments when you go through everything with him every night!

diamondsonblackvelvet13 Posted 18 Dec 2008 , 1:58am
post #8 of 24

Hey! I never thought of the binder thing. That's a great idea! I keep all of my reminders on my cell, so it is difficult come up with another way.

I thought that (yea, I dunno why) if one was GT then you were GT in all areas. I guess it is time to spring clean .....again....for the third time this year.

Thank you ALL for for your help and if you come up with another idea...toss it this way!

mbelgard Posted 18 Dec 2008 , 3:15pm
post #9 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamondsonblackvelvet13



I thought that (yea, I dunno why) if one was GT then you were GT in all areas.




I was a gifted kid and for 6th grade we had two classes that all the academically gifted children went to, English and Lit. The English teacher made several comments to us about how the way they had it set up wasn't fair to everyone since not all of us were gifted in language arts so some were expected to work above what they should be in those classes while being bored in other classes.

That's part of why skipping grades isn't always the answer. A child can be 8 grades ahead in reading but be working at math on or below grade level.

-K8memphis Posted 18 Dec 2008 , 5:41pm
post #10 of 24

My kid is adhd and genius level iq.

His standardized test looked like clotheslines where scores stretched from side to side within the same subjects. For example, reading comprehension and spelling--different ends of the spectrum. Several subjects were like that. Had a learning disablity in reading.

SecretAgentCakeBaker Posted 19 Dec 2008 , 6:15am
post #11 of 24

I posted the following on another thread, so those who have already read that one, forgive me, but these are great resources.

There are tons of books you can read, and some great email groups you can join. The people on both groups are great at helping each other. You can get a lot of advice from both. Join them and you can read the archives.
This first one is for anyone interested in gifted:
http://www.lists.us.mensa.org/mailman/listinfo/brightkids
This one is for homeschoolers, or interested in homeschooling bright kids.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/homeschoolingmensans/


Oh, and let me not forget Hoagies Gifted website. Start here, as you will find find a ton of articles about gifted stuff.
http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/

Some gifted kids are incorrectly diagnosed with ADD (or other such issues), or they are gifted with a disability (2E). James T. Webb talks about this in his book, "Mis-Diagnosis and Dual Diagnosis of Gifted Children".
You can read a bit about the book here:
http://talentdevelop.com/articles/MADDOGC.html

Read Hoagies pages about 2E (Twice Exceptional-gifted with learning disabilities)
http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/twice_exceptional.htm

This is my favorite article about what it is like to be gifted and not served.
http://www.stephanietolan.com/is_it_a_cheetah.htm

I'm not putting teachers/schools down here, but, many teachers & school officials really cannot help much with gifted kids, unless they specialize in that area or have a personal interest in gifted education. They don't learn much about it in college, and since the focus is so far to the other side, the gifted kids many times go unserved. This really isn't the teacher's fault, as the classroom dynamics don't always allow for the differentiation needed for these kids. It is good that your school has at least, finally, identified your child. Also, just because a school has a 'gifted program', unless it is an all day, inclusive program (with all gifted in the classroom), don't assume that your child is getting what he needs. Do a lot of research yourself and go from there. Don't back down and don't take no for an answer. If you know your child needs something in his schooling to help him, fight for it. (Oh, and dont allow your child to be a tutor for the other kids in the class, rather than being given more appropriate work. Your child has a right to be learning, not teaching. Pet peeve of mine.)

Lastly, find out if your local Mensa chapter has a kids group. Kids do not have to be a member to get involved in the children's activities. It might be nice for your son to find someone else 'like him'. It can make a huge difference for a kid to finally find another kid that enjoys, and even understands, his ramblings about some unusual topic he might be interested in.

Feel free to send me a personal message if you want to talk more.
Good luck with everything!

xstitcher Posted 19 Dec 2008 , 2:23pm
post #12 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamondsonblackvelvet13

Hey! I never thought of the binder thing. That's a great idea! I keep all of my reminders on my cell, so it is difficult come up with another way.

I thought that (yea, I dunno why) if one was GT then you were GT in all areas. I guess it is time to spring clean .....again....for the third time this year.

Thank you ALL for for your help and if you come up with another idea...toss it this way!




Hey Diana,

I was just thinking that if it is mostly paper that you are keeping perhaps (like school assignments that were done well) you could perhaps scan those into the computer and save them to disk. You could always just keep a couple original items per year so that you don't end up with to much later.

Just a thought....

icon_smile.gif

diamondsonblackvelvet13 Posted 19 Dec 2008 , 5:07pm
post #13 of 24

Well....I am ashamed to say it is not school papers I keep. It is blank paper. It is a quirk we share.

ziggytarheel Posted 19 Dec 2008 , 8:53pm
post #14 of 24

As the mother of a college age off the chart gifted son, I want to add that this is a crucial time in your son's life. He is at a crossroads and anything you can do to encourage him while he still REALLY listens to you is a very good thing! All of my organizational suggestions and requirements of him when he was younger did not translate to his own way of doing things. What I wish I had done when he was your son's age was to talk to him about organizational systems that made sense to him and then helped him to develop that for himself. His lack of organization now can drive me crazy, but I take comfort in the fact that he once DID have a system that worked for him, even though it was mine, and maybe one day he'll see the need to have one again.

We twice refused to let our son skip a grade. In our thinking, a year of his growing up would just vanish if we did that. There are things that are more important than test scores. And, I'm the unusual parent in that I wish the schools hadn't catered to my son so much. Since he was reading on a 7th grade level before kindergarten, all through elementary school he got to choose much of his curriculum...always doing special projects, reading books he liked, etc. He loves to learn, and he still spends hours most days learning things for fun, but he has little patience for learning things he isn't interested in. My mistake. I should have started early on learning about things that didn't REALLY interest him that much. Boredom is a choice and I think I should never have allowed him to only have to learn about what he thinks is fun. At the time, it seemed like a really good idea.

indydebi Posted 20 Dec 2008 , 12:57am
post #15 of 24

My son was tested at a genius IQ in elementary school. When they put him in harder classes, his grades went up. Some of it can be the typical "bored in class" stuff. He knows he can do it, so he doesnt' do it because it's too easy .... and boring .... to him.

My contribution to this discussion is make sure his homework is done AND TURNED IN!!! That was my biggest headache up until my son graduated!!! As it was explained to me, "John has proved to himself he can do it ... he sees no need to prove it to a teacher." Even in high school, he got a D in photography class because he didn't turn in the final project. When I asked if he finished it, he said, "Oh yeah, I finished it. It turned out even better than I thought it would. I just didn't turn it in!"

AAAAUUUUUGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Honest to God, we would talk about how we'd never (!) be able to leave him home alone like we did his older sister. He was my little airhead.

This is the same son who is a twice decorated war hero who served two tours of Iraq as a U.S. Marine!!! icon_biggrin.gif (<---- proud Mom smile!)

diamondsonblackvelvet13 Posted 20 Dec 2008 , 3:13pm
post #16 of 24

How funny...All of what y'all are describing fits him to a "T". He is scatterbrained and lacks common sense. He can figure out hard stuff but the littlest everyday things can stop him in his tracks.

SecretAgentCakeBaker Posted 20 Dec 2008 , 4:18pm
post #17 of 24

That is all very typical gifted behavior. If you read some of those websites and books, you should be able to get some more insight.

Also, regarding boredom in gifted kids. Imagine if you will, that you were forced to sit through a cake decorating class for beginners, 'learning' things like how to make the icing, how to level, how to put the tips on the bag and fill them, etc. Are you 'learning' something? No, you already know it. A minutes seems like an eternity. So, instead of paying attention, you'd be squirming in your seat, falling asleep, thinking about other stuff, doodling, reading a book, might even walk out. You wander into the next room, which happens to have the advanced class, teaching techniques you don't know how to do. You go in and are completely focused on what is being taught. You love it! You're not bored at all because you really are 'learning' something. The class ends before you know it and you cannot wait for the next one! It's the same thing with gifted kids that are forced to sit in a classroom with same age kids of average intelligence. The teacher has to teach to the majority, so the gifted kid sits there, bored to tears. You can do the research and find the stats will back this up. Did you know that many of the kids that drop out of high school are gifted? They've just been so bored and fed up that when they finally get the chance to leave and go do their own thing, they do. Some of them are smarter than their teachers. Many gifted kids even start to get into trouble. Or, they get bad grades because they see no point in 'performing', but then they get to college and take classes that are tough, they actually start to learn and are no longer bored. The problem for some, however, myself included, is that they were never challenged in grade school, so never learned how to study (didn't need to) and when they get to college, it proves to be a difficult challenge.

My daughter is now 6 and in third grade. We have know about her giftedness since she was a baby, and had it confirmed when she was 3. She started kindergarten in a school for the gifted a year early. This is a very happy, obedient, well behaved child who listens well, etc. The summer before, she was taking classes at the science museum and never had a bad report or issue. After 3 weeks of kindergarten, she was so bored she started causing trouble in class and crying that she didn't want to go back to school. They had to move her to first grade after that. Her happiness returned and she never caused a peep of trouble. In fact, her teacher told me she was the peacemaker of the classroom and helped the other kids work out their disagreements. So, she was 4 years old, in first grade in a school for the gifted. By then end of the school year, she was half way through the second grade math book and reading on the fourth grade level, and she had just turned 5 by the time first grade ended. Now we home school her. It is wonderful, she is happy and loves learning. She does not want to go back to a school situation where she is going to get in trouble because she is bored having to sit and listen to basics she already knows. At home, if I present something and she can do it easily, or she tells me she already knows it, we can move on quickly. Now she is learning Latin and has a lot of free time to do things she enjoys, such as violin, chess club and art. After January we're also starting sign language classes.

I am very passionate about gifted kids not being left behind, or ignored. Yeah, I am one of those gifted kids that fell through the cracks, so did my dad and brother. My mom never thought to ask the school for anything different for me, or my brother. We were bored to tears and now suffer for it as adults. My brother and father got fed up and dropped out, I stuck it out, but was not a very happy person. I never knew I could ask for anything more or different. Growing up was very lonely as well, not having anyone I could relate to. The girls in my class were happier pretending to be cats all day, later talking about boys/makeup; I didn't fit in with that so I just read books. I don't cry easily, but when I hear about a gifted kid being forced to fit into a situation that is not right for him/her, it just makes me cry and feel so badly for him. Please, anyone that thinks they have a gifted kid, especialy if there are behavior problems. Find ways to give that child the mental stimulation they need, and maybe you will find that some of the problems go away.

2508s42 Posted 29 Dec 2008 , 5:50am
post #18 of 24

Just my little pet peeve. My DS is gifted, 98% percentile in reading, 97% in math, and wasn't accepted into the GT program. They said he didn't score high enough. This is also a kid who is a peace maker in class, includes all the kids at recess, and plays 5 sports a year, and excels in those as well. He is just "one of those kids". You know what I mean. He isn't snotty or anything. My husband calls him a snake charmer because everyone likes him. He got an ulcer because he didn't know all of his multiplication facts at the beginning of 1st grade.

But here is my peeve... the schools teach to the middle kids as a rule. There are all kinds of programs for the kids who are quite at average level. Every kid is entitled to help. UNLESS your child is gifted, but not gifted enough. Remember, he is recognized as gifted, but couldn't get into their program??? So he is bored in school. In order to keep him interested, they made him a peer tutor. Hmmm. In our school, the older kids get to be star tutors to the kids in younger grades and stuff, but my son is a PEER tutor. I'm sorry, isn't that the teachers job????? What about her class aid?????? I feel like what she is doing is setting him up to be picked on. No one wants to feel like a freak, and she has him help the dumb jocks in his class with things they need help on. I can flash forward 8 years to high school, when they are making him do their homework OR ELSE. Maybe I am paranoid, but wouldn't it be better for my son to have extra work added to his load? Maybe a research project or something. He would love to research how video games were started, who and why, and the evolution of the systems.

I know I am ranting. I just get so frustrated. Does your school have AR? The first week of school I told his teacher that he reads really well. So she set a goal for him of 10 points. The book he is reading now is worth 25 points. So three weeks into school, she calls me ands asks me what I think his goal should be, since he has already passed his, and I ask her what he has...200 points. In THREE WEEKS. So I told her that if 3 weeks is half of the goal period, then maybe his goal should be 450. I TOLD HER he was a good reader. Anyway. He is in the 4th grade now, he has a perfect gpa, he has never even brought home a b on a paper, only perfect scores, his tests are high, and he can't get in to gt so the school uses him as slave labor for the rest of the class.

RANT RANT.

As far as orginazation, buy him a trapper keeper, a desk with in and out boxes, and a day planner. Have him write down all the assigments, check marked for turned in, and the grade for when it is returned. Bring the planner home every day at first, then every week and check. At my house, he gets no computer time for the days he forgets, and a extra hour of computer time when he remembers. And there is no emotion behind it either. Just, okay, you must not have wanted to play computer today. How sad.

Since putting in the system...my teenager (not the gt one) has brought grades up from d and f's to b's and c's. Which I will TOTALLY take. THe world is run by average people.

ziggytarheel Posted 29 Dec 2008 , 11:58am
post #19 of 24

My kids were subject to the exceptionally high AG standards as well...you had to score 99.6 or above to be in the full program in each area. My son scored above that in every area, my daughter didn't quite. Even with those standards, we have a huge number of AG kids around here.

From someone who has "been there, done that", I do have a few suggestions:

- Remember, as their parent, you really are the one in charge of their education from the day that they are born. You shape the way your child views education and school. You set the standards. You help to form their attitudes.

- I've been around more AG kids than most people and I can tell you that the biggest favor you can do your child is to teach them through example and action how to function in the world and get along with people. Being gifted can be a tremendous burden, even if you get the perfect situation at school. Helping your child be a good friend, a hard worker, a kind person, etc., is MUCH MUCH MUCH more important.

- Most of these school issues won't seem so important later if you are bringing up a well-rounded child now. Seriously. I remember agonizing with a friend over the math situations our sons were in in their various schools. It seems so silly now! Eventually, both boys were given the opportunity to jump several grades ahead in math and now neither one is looking to make a career of it. icon_smile.gif

- Try to find things at the elementary school level that work for your child. In 3rd grade, it was the AR program for our son. He got more points (by a lot) than anyone else at his very large elementary school. He was a bit competitive, so that gave him something he was excited about in school. In 4th grade, it was the opportunity given him to do advanced math after school with a 5th grade teacher. Yes, I realize that seems crazy, but that is what we finally found that could work for him.

- Whatever you do, do NOT spend time telling your child how much smarter they are than everyone else. Do you really want that to be his or her identity? And, do you want him or her to have that identity with his or her peers? Encourage your child's interests, be your child's advocate, but encourage him in his or her weaknesses. It is very easy for a highly gifted child to become prideful to the point of being difficult to make and keep friends.

Just a few suggestions. Some of these things we learned in our house. Some we've learned through observation. Think about what you want for your child at age 22, what is best for your child as an adult. It should be a lot more about how to be a good friend, a good worker, etc. A confident, well-rounded, kind, loving, respectful, industrious, thoughtful, etc. child is really much more important.

mbelgard Posted 29 Dec 2008 , 2:26pm
post #20 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggytarheel



- Whatever you do, do NOT spend time telling your child how much smarter they are than everyone else. Do you really want that to be his or her identity? And, do you want him or her to have that identity with his or her peers? Encourage your child's interests, be your child's advocate, but encourage him in his or her weaknesses. It is very easy for a highly gifted child to become prideful to the point of being difficult to make and keep friends.
.




With my oldest it's pretty easy to keep him from getting a big head because two of his weak points are obvious in a class of kids. He's not athletic and isn't what you would call an artist.

But I will say that being known as the "smart kid" in class is pretty unavoidable no matter what you try if it's a mixed class. Both of my boys are out of step with their peers at times. No matter how humble a child is about it the other kids know something's up when they're reading Magic Tree House and the kid next to them is reading Lord of the Rings. Stuff like vocabulary and always knowing the answers are hard to hide too.

KHalstead Posted 29 Dec 2008 , 2:53pm
post #21 of 24

Just wanted to add about the math thing......I am a teacher at a private school and we have a lot of parents (I work w/ 5th and 6th graders) that send in notes stating that they could not help "Jimmy" w/ his math homework, so don't think you're alone.......in order to avoid having to tell your son's teacher......"I stink at math and have no clue what you're talking about"......try saying something like "I really want to help him, but I was taught to do this differently when I was in school, can you show me all of the steps that HE needs to know to do this?" The teacher will appreciate that you're not going to attempt to show him a "different" way to get the answer. It makes things for difficult for the teacher when the student learns a different way then what they're showing and in the end depending on the steps he could actually lose points on a test if the correct steps are not followed!

And for the organization thing........I did the binder thing and I also got those one subject spiral notebooks and had one for EVERY class.......then when I went to Science, I grabbed my Science book, spiral notebook with Science on it and my binder......no thought process and I always had everything all together (I was notorious for taking notes for Science or whatever and shoving them in a folder w/ notes for math and notes for Social Studies or whatever and I couldn't decipher what was what or find anything.....having the separate notebooks allowed me to page through and find everything which is especially helpful in math since a lot of the basics are repeated in later math, your son would be able to go back several pages and refresh his memory on stuff that they may not have used in a while.

ziggytarheel Posted 29 Dec 2008 , 4:20pm
post #22 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbelgard

Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggytarheel



- Whatever you do, do NOT spend time telling your child how much smarter they are than everyone else. Do you really want that to be his or her identity? And, do you want him or her to have that identity with his or her peers? Encourage your child's interests, be your child's advocate, but encourage him in his or her weaknesses. It is very easy for a highly gifted child to become prideful to the point of being difficult to make and keep friends.
.



With my oldest it's pretty easy to keep him from getting a big head because two of his weak points are obvious in a class of kids. He's not athletic and isn't what you would call an artist.

But I will say that being known as the "smart kid" in class is pretty unavoidable no matter what you try if it's a mixed class. Both of my boys are out of step with their peers at times. No matter how humble a child is about it the other kids know something's up when they're reading Magic Tree House and the kid next to them is reading Lord of the Rings. Stuff like vocabulary and always knowing the answers are hard to hide too.




I definitely agree that with those who are highly gifted, it's obvious to everyone that there is something different going on. But how the child learns to deal with it is what I had in mind when I wrote that. A prideful know it all doesn't make many friends and has a much harder time than a very smart kid who is kind and thoughtful. It can be very hard for the highly gifted to keep things in perspective. I know that by age 4 my son had figured out that there were many subjects he knew more about than I did....because he spent at least 2 hours a day reading the encyclopedia about subjects I had no interest in. So it was a constant struggle to keep his priorities straight and his head level, but one of the most important ones for him. icon_smile.gif

diamondsonblackvelvet13 Posted 29 Dec 2008 , 5:46pm
post #23 of 24

I am so thankful I am not alone. It is hard to keep him motivated. When given a project for school, he often does JUST what is required and no more. How I help him past that?

-K8memphis Posted 29 Dec 2008 , 7:02pm
post #24 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by diamondsonblackvelvet13

I am so thankful I am not alone. It is hard to keep him motivated. When given a project for school, he often does JUST what is required and no more. How I help him past that?




Doing what's required sounds pretty cool to me.

He'll find something he's interested in to excel at.

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