Not A Diasaster More Of A Slap In The Face

Decorating By jackie64 Updated 15 Oct 2008 , 9:14pm by angelatx

margaretb Posted 2 Oct 2008 , 10:03pm
post #31 of 74

The reason that I think there should be something about a church discount is because I think that cake was totally undercharged for the amount of work involved, so that would show the customers that she was already donating cake by only charging them $200. But just as you said, you don't want it to be a permanent church discount, so I said special event discount, by which I mean putting some kind of term on it that says this is a ONE TIME ONLY DISCOUNT.

If you do invoice for just the $200, I would also be inclined to either refuse orders from that group in the future or else quote the full market price and then if you are willing to do it for less, make sure they know that you are giving them a deal.

There are lots of good ideas here. I'll be interested in hearing how this plays out if the OP pursues this.

jennifer7777 Posted 2 Oct 2008 , 11:54pm
post #32 of 74

Definitely get your money...from the daughter! She is the one you made the agreement, and you said your own daughter heard her agree to it when you all were cleaning up. This has nothing to do with the paster or his wife...the wife just happened to write the check, but that's neither here nor there. The daughter knew that check didn't say $200.
Let her know she has an outstanding balance and make her be responsible.

The cake was absolutely beautiful. You deserve more for yourself. Believe me, I've never been one to like confrontations either, but sometimes you just have to get the backbone to do it, because people will run over you...sometimes even more so with church people, friends and family!

Good luck and post the outcome.

beagledog100 Posted 3 Oct 2008 , 2:25am
post #33 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackie64

I made arrangements with the daughter she is a grown woman that night after the celebration me and my daughter helped clean up and she heard me tell her 200.00 and she told me she would pay me the next day at church.




Had you discussed the price with the daughter BEFORE you made the cake or was your first price discussion with her when you were cleaning up AFTER the celebration?

ziggytarheel Posted 3 Oct 2008 , 2:59am
post #34 of 74

I really have to wonder if there wasn't miscommunication here, especially after you said that pastor's wife, one of the honorees, signed the check.

Did you volunteer to make the cake, or were you asked to? Were you cleaning up after the cake was served when you first mentioned a price for the cake?

If any of those things are true, it makes me wonder if it was believed you were either donating a cake, or if they assumed Walmart type prices because...that's what cake costs.

And then I wonder if the daughter was in a bind because there was no money budgeted from the church, so her mother had to use her own money to pay what she could for her own cake.

I'm hoping I'll hear that I'm wrong on all counts.

geri4292adams Posted 3 Oct 2008 , 3:01am
post #35 of 74

In my humble oppinion, I think you should send them an invoice for the total due. If this had been any other situation or person that is what you would have done . So what you had quoted to these people and agreed upon is what you should get paid. My family and friends order cakes from me and when we agree upon a price, that is what I get paid. Why should it be any different for your pastor or his family or the church? If you're so concerned about being nice and not wanting confrontation, then just descretly take her aside after services are over and talk with her. I'm sure if she is a TRUE christian than she will write you a check right away with no hesitation. Good luck and I hope you get your money.

zoomzone Posted 3 Oct 2008 , 3:20am
post #36 of 74

I like the way Debradough phrased it and aim it at the daughter.
But- if you are dreading any more confrontation- please just forget it. Yes- your cake is quite beautiful and yes you deserve it. But know that what goes around comes around, if someone delibrately denied you something that is rightfully yours- God will provide it to you some other way.

Kitagrl Posted 3 Oct 2008 , 3:27am
post #37 of 74

I feel there was a terrible miscommunication somehow. The fact that the pastor's wife had to sign the check for her own cake really bothers me. If you go to anyone, go to the daughter...don't bring the pastor's wife in on this. After all, it was her own celebration, and it was the daughter who ordered the cake.

I am a pastor's wife myself and know miscommunications can happen very easily! And it hurts me a little to see this pastor's wife in this thread, having her character questioned when its not even clear if she had anything to do with ordering this cake OR any responsibility for paying for it.

As far as the decorating side...this is precisely why I donate cake to church functions (baby showers and etc) and any cake orders I simply say "donation only". So far nobody has taken advantage of me (except maybe one lady, who honestly had no money to pay me but wanted a cake...I just talked her down to a small one and figured I was doing it for the Lord, really! I'll be booked up next time she orders LOL). And I also don't really encourage people ordering cake from me. Its just a huge problem waiting to happen. So I do not charge my fellow church members any specific prices, because I cannot afford a miscommunication, or an "expensive" price, to stir up trouble in church. Its just not worth it, ya know? We don't have a large church so I suppose I have it easier....if we had a larger one, I would just have to refuse some orders by saying "booked up".

If you like your church, and you like your pastor...maybe the $50 isn't worth the trouble it would cause. But if there are more problems than just the $50...well then, the problem runs deeper and you will have to deal with that however you see fit.

kettlevalleygirl Posted 3 Oct 2008 , 3:32am
post #38 of 74

I think you should deal with the daughter also, and ask for the $50.
I know that I would feel uncomfortable doing it, but I think that you have to clear it up. Because this will always be on your mind....
I also think that just because it is a church, that they might be trying to take advantage of you not saying anything?? just a thought...

Kitagrl Posted 3 Oct 2008 , 3:37am
post #39 of 74

I did unfortunately know a pastor one time that would cheat people...but again that is precisely why I do not get involved in money transactions in church, whenever possible. It just stirs things up. Its better for me to give out free cake (again I have a small church, only a few cake functions, and not many member orders) than to deal with the hassle and trouble that is caused by asking for money from another church member. I get more than enough orders from the "outside" to worry about money in church.

LNW Posted 3 Oct 2008 , 1:22pm
post #40 of 74

Iâm confused about the price quoting. Did you tell them beforehand what the cost of the cake would be or afterwards?

If it was before you made the cake and she agreed to it then yes you should try to get the other $50 she owes you. I canât see the picture of your cake (big red X) so I canât comment on that, sorry. But from everyoneâs comments so far it must have been beautiful and worth every penny of that $200. You worked hard for it and you deserve to get paid.

If you gave her the price after the party then I think you were unfair to them. I have no doubt there was a budget in place for this event and they were either expecting you to donate the cake or do it for an extreme discount (Wal-Mart prices). Iâm sure had they known in advance what your price would be they probably would have either gotten the cake somewhere else or ordered something less expensive.

darandon Posted 3 Oct 2008 , 1:35pm
post #41 of 74

I know - for me at least - I have the worst memory. I could be told 20 times that the total was $200, but when I actally write the check, I would forget the amount and think that I was told it was $150. I've done it before, and have felt horrible about writing the wrong amount. Maybe it was oversight on her part. She should have checked. I'd mention it to her that the check should have been $200.

eatdessert1st Posted 3 Oct 2008 , 1:38pm
post #42 of 74

It really depends on the situation. If the price was agreed upon up front, when the cake was ordered, then yes the $50 is still owed. If the price was not discussed until delivery of the cake then they probably had sticker shock (and not enough in the bday cake budget!). As Christians, we're supposed to go to the brother who offended us and broach the situation with them... not anyone else. I strongly encourage you to go to the daughter and broach the subject with her since she's the one who arranged for the cake. $50 is a lot of money nowadays.. heck, it'll buy at least 1/2 a gallon of gas icon_lol.gif
I know at our Church I've donated Pastor Appreciation cakes knowing that otherwise the pastors would be the ones paying for it. I'll only do it if I'm not busy w/ other orders or commitments.
The cake is absolutely gorgeous! You did a wonderful job on it!

Melanie Mc.

bethola Posted 3 Oct 2008 , 1:49pm
post #43 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerrellC

Hello Jackie, from a artistic and business standpoint the wonderful looking cake is worth WAY more than $200.My question is was the check the pastors personal check or was it from your church ? We just done a cake for our pastor celebrating 30 years of loyal and faithful service.The budget for the event was $300,after cokes,plates,cups,etc there was only $100 left for the cake,so WE decided that was the price . My point is if the pastor had to pay for his own cake,I'd give them the check back and thank them for doing what GOD called him to do. JMHO Derrell




I agree. I think there may have been a miscommunication, but, without addressing it directly you will never know. I also agree with the previous poster that this is the type thing that can fester. How do I know? AHHHH, Experience is the BEST teacher! If you have a day or two....take time to ready my thread from a couple of years ago (IF it's still there) The Cake from He--!

However, we can all give advice but the final decision is up to you. NOW, my SON would say that giving the check back is a "passive aggressive" move; probably because it is something "I" would do and I'm the poster child for passive aggressive! LOL

I wish you the best and hope you can resolve this so that it doesn't cause conflict in your life.

Beth in KY

maggiev777 Posted 3 Oct 2008 , 1:54pm
post #44 of 74

Apologies in advance for the VERY long reply!

I think you are called to assume the best in this situation, of both your pastor's daughter, and your pastor's wife. It is not right to assume the worst before even talking to them (particularly of the pastor's wife, who may know nothing about any of this!). Don't let yourself get worked up and feel "cheated". Just assume that somewhere along the way there was a miscommunication, and set about handling it biblically. Even if you discover along the way that the miscommunication was intentional, guard your heart from responding in a way that is contrary to what would bring honor to the Lord.

Some questions asked by PP -
Who ordered the cake? Did they agree to the $200 beforehand?
Whose money was paying for it (you said the pastor's wife signed the check, but was it a church check, or a personal check)? (if personal, why was the pastor paying for his own cake??)

If the church was paying for it and the daughter only knew about the price of the cake after the party, I would just approach the daughter (or whoever agreed to the price) privately and say in a genuinely kind tone, " I just wanted to mention to you that the check you gave me was for $150 instead of the $200 I quoted you. Was there a problem with the $200?" and see what she says. While at the same time trying to gently uncover the story (without trying to embarrass the daughter or her mother). You might uncover a simple miscommunication, or an awkward situation that you can respond graciously to.

Or you might uncover a situation of blatant deceit, greediness, etc. Then what??

You have to look at your own heart and get rid of your own anger, resentment, and offended feelings before you can approach those involved in this situation, and it also means being fully prepared in your own heart to let it go and let love cover this, even if your pastor's daughter and/or her mother are being greedy. And remember that letting it go and letting love cover this means not holding on to any resentment or hurt feelings towards them, and not letting your tongue speak of the situation to others either (especially anyone who knows them). It is easy to look and point out where another person does not measure up. But it is far more important for us to look into our own hearts. You cannot control another person and their heart (or even know it, really!), but you can know your own heart, and work on it.

We like to think hurt feelings are "ok" - who hasn't ever said, "I'm not angry, I'm just hurt"? But honestly, hurt feelings can very EASILY fester into bitterness, even if we say we have forgiven someone. People will say, "But I can't help my feelings! I can't help being hurt." To which I would respond, that you CAN do things to redirect your energies and to guard your heart and your tongue.

None of us know how often we have been (and will be in the future) on the receiving end of love that covers. But we should all assume we have received that covering love a LOT - because we probably have! And we should work to be generous in extending it to others.

When all is said and done, you might also learn to handle things differently from the begining next time. There is nothing unChristian about making up a contract and agreeing on a price beforehand (or declining business or referring potential customers to other bakers in their price range). I think the informality of the agreement this time has contributed to the problem, and maybe more formality might make things a lot smoother all around next time.

I know you are hurt and frustrated. I hope you know I am speaking all of this in love, and only trying to encourage you (not accuse you!)

kettlevalleygirl Posted 3 Oct 2008 , 2:06pm
post #45 of 74

Wow, well said icon_smile.gif

-K8memphis Posted 3 Oct 2008 , 4:45pm
post #46 of 74

I think the longer you let this ride the worse you're gonna feel. I don't think you can stuff this. *If there is no one in the area who can counsel you or even stand in the gap and make inquiry for you--then I think you need to get your money simply and up front.

When you see the daughter just smile and say, "Oh, the balance on the cake is $50."

Leave off all the drama beyond that. I think.

*Is there any real special person at your church who can keep their mouth shut on the one hand and counsel you on the other?

I mean it could eas-i-ly be opening a nasty can of worms if you got the wrong person but if there just might be someone like that, I think I'd go there and seek their counsel.

3GCakes Posted 3 Oct 2008 , 5:11pm
post #47 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackie64

Thats just it I am really a quiet and passive person that hates confrontation. I am really hurt and I havent gotten mad about it I think because I was stunned by it really . I just would have never expected to be done this way.




Hello,

Truly, when a brother or siser in Christ "offends" us, we are to take the matter directly to them. That is YOUR responsibility. That way, we are not left wondering if we have offended someone somehow. If we are offended, we are to take the matter to the offender. Normally you would simply tell them, or even invoice them, advising that $50.00 was left out the quoted price. If that does not resolve it, you would take the matter between "two or three brothers" who could help resolve the matter. The reason I say this to you, is because this is a matter between you and your church authority. THere is not a clear line between your business in this situation and wanting to serve your church famly. You were waiting for payment while attending church services, and that kind of blurs the line. If you didn't go to the church, maybe it would be different. Until you've addressed the matter privately with your own offenders, there really isn't much help anybody on this board can be.

Candes Posted 3 Oct 2008 , 8:25pm
post #48 of 74

ITA submitt an invoice reflecting what's been paid already. It's not confrontational is part of providing your services. I'd circle the remaining balance in red.

There's a lot of presumption so give them the benefit of the doubt. This is a foothold in your life and it can only grow. By getting to the truth you allow this issue to be put to rest once and for all. By NOT finding out the truth your joy is being stolen, animosity can set in as well as bitterness and the other party could be totally clueless.

Give them a chance to answer for their actions. This could very well be a lessen He wants you to learn.

Now's your chance to grow in your faith by following through and not allowing this uncertainty to govern you. YOU CAN DO THIS. {{{hugs}}}

TexasSugar Posted 3 Oct 2008 , 8:59pm
post #49 of 74

I, too, am curious if the OP discussed the price up front. BUT even if it was not, I do not feel that she was done right in the situation.

If there was a budget of $150, then something should have been said to her when the daughter told her she would pay her the next day or when she finally recieved the check 4 days later. They shouldn't have just paid her less and not given an explaination or reason for it. And with the check in an envelope that makes it seem fishy to me.

I still feel the OP needs to go to the daughter and discuss it with her. She shouldn't have to let this go and let her feelings eat at her just because it was a cake for her church.

Homemade-Goodies Posted 3 Oct 2008 , 9:15pm
post #50 of 74

Jackie64, you can see how passionately this subject has riled up the CC natives...

Take BlakeCakes & indydebi's advice - send a detailed bill, showing payment rec'd, balance due. THEN, if you don't receive payment, you can be offended and PO'd at the daughter.

Please don't doubt your work....that is one GORgeous cake, lady!!! I love the effect of Swiss dots on cakes, really stunning colors you've used as well!

Hang in there, sistah....

annacakes Posted 3 Oct 2008 , 9:33pm
post #51 of 74

Jackie, stunning cake. You deserve to be paid in full. Plain and simple. Indydebs right. Just send the invoice detailing the amount outstanding.

DebBTX Posted 3 Oct 2008 , 10:00pm
post #52 of 74

Jackie,
I thought I would check in on you and see how you are doing?

-Debbie B.

MegWinn Posted 3 Oct 2008 , 10:07pm
post #53 of 74

I don't usually bring God into these conversations BUT...you are abviously a Christian woman. Having a Christian perspective on things means that you act for the good of others, and sometimes that means correcting them for their own good. It is NOT in their best interest to "cheat" you out of $, and it is not in your best interest to have a wedge driven between you and your pastor. It may be uncomfortable, but I think you are obligated to let them know that they did not pay you the full amount...I commend you on taking the high road and agree that the $$ they keep will do them more harm than good because they are keeping something that does NOT belong to them! If it makes you feel better also tell them that if they cannot afford to pay you they can keep their $.

ArtieTs Posted 3 Oct 2008 , 10:26pm
post #54 of 74

I'm sorry that happened to you, but don't give the check back. I'm sure the cake was well worth more than what you charged.

I can relate with you. I had a very similar situation with me, a cake & family member in a church, & needless to say, it had the makings of turning out real bad for all involved. I have a cousin, you know the one aka "THE SHISTER", always wants something for nothing & will try to rip you off he can. Well his wife ordered a cake to feed close to 90 people for his parents 50th anniversary. Well I made the cake, delivered it, set it up, & stayed for the event. Well after the festivities, when I went to find find out who was paying me, he politely told me that he would pay me tomorrow. HUH????? icon_confused.gif All I could think was if I leave without my money, he wil never answer my calls the next day , so I knew better than that. I went on to tell him that I don't do business like that & I brought the cake & I wanted to be paid. He then told me " well I don't know who told you to bring it" WHA??????? icon_eek.gif. I immediately saw red & before the night was over I had raised such a fuss & all but threatened to praise dance on his head that I left with a check written by the wife that I cashed in her bank the next day. I really hate to think that I almost sealed my fate to burn in hell behind commiting an assault in a church over a cake. I learned a valuable lesson from that " GET PAID IN ADVANCE!" especially when dealing with family.

jackie64 Posted 4 Oct 2008 , 12:30am
post #55 of 74

Im doing ok Debbie B Thank You for asking. I am going to go on Im not going to ask for the money . First let me state the check was not in an envelope it was just folded in half , as I stated before I just stuck it in my purse and didnt even look at it. I am at complete peace over this I have made several cakes in the past for the church and have not charged for them, And I agree with a lot of you maybe they expected to get it for no charge . But there are several underlying things here that go along with this. Ok I ordered the gumpaste ivy and flowers that are on the cake and as many of you know they are not cheap. These had been previously ordered for the Pastors Grandaughter she was going to get married and then the marriage didnt happen . Ok I didnt charge them for the flowers and ivy that I ordered . I ate the cost and went on. So this is one reason I charged for the cake. I will state the obvious I bake at home and many of you know how long it takes to bake a 14 inch layer in a regular oven . It took me all day just to get the cakes baked. Hence I have to pay for the electricity to bake the cakes, the pan release wrapping them the cake boards to place them on,almost 4 dozen eggs milk oil vanilla flavoring . Making the icing almost 40 cups of icing,and everything needed to make it along with the electricity with using the kitchenaid for that long . I had to order the 12 inch cake plate and the sugar pearls. My cousin attends the same church I had already told her that it would be 200.00 as this was in the works for months I knew in April about this and I had talked to the daughter about what she wanted . She came to me about making the cake for the celebration. Let me just say the church fund paid for the cake . It didnt come from a personal account. And all the hours of work I put into the cake. I didnt just slap it up and present it. This is just my justification for the price I charged . I think I was more than fair.

iownajane Posted 4 Oct 2008 , 12:45am
post #56 of 74

Your decision is your's to make...but I do NOT understand how you can NOT ask them for the money...it's the principle...they OWE it to you...and you feel slighted and insulted(as evidenced by your listing of all the expenses,which,by the way,you do NOT have to make excuses for)...why are you letting them off the hook...They should be the first ones to say "i'm sorry...we've made a terrible mistake,and we didn't mean to offend you in any way" You are setting a precedent for them to do the same thing every time...to every other person they deal with...Shame on them...Shame on that church....you should NOT be intimidated by a Pastor's family...what a scam!

jackie64 Posted 4 Oct 2008 , 1:08am
post #57 of 74

Its not worth the trouble it will cause and trust me it will more than likely. I was hurt by it and I have learned a very valuable lesson , some pay a much bigger price to learn a life lesson and I dont mean just monetarily . So I feel lucky that it was no more than that . A lot of people just do not understand what it takes to make a cake like that its just cake to most people we all know that. I lived before I got paid for the cake and I will live just fine without it. This is how I look at it If they can live with it I can live without it as well I am a person of Honor I go by the Honor system I carry myself with a high degree of dignity and respect and that is something no one can take from me. When I deal with people they can be assured I have been fair and thats a reputation I am going to keep. I will no longer be making cakes for anyone at church its just better that way.And if I am ask I am going to tell them I no longer do cakes .

jackie64 Posted 4 Oct 2008 , 1:22am
post #58 of 74

Im sorry I hope I havent offended anyone . Coming here and talking about this has helped me to get it out of my system and reading other peoples stories that have had similar problems helps me to see Im not alone others have gone through the same thing.

Homemade-Goodies Posted 4 Oct 2008 , 9:37am
post #59 of 74

Telling church members you no longer make cakes wouldn't be truthful, would it? I hope you aren't giving up your beautiful talent because one family played head games and won.

Unfortunately, church members become as close as family sometimes, and like the adage never loan money to family...it really applies to most business dealings as well.

I had a similar experience with a close work colleague in April....everything goes gunnysack for some reason, and yet the added strain of not wanting to offend these people so close to us makes it more difficult. I know I'll not do anything similar now. Too much heartburn!

If you are peace with it, that is certainly your decision though I wouldn't have made the same one. Scriptures tell us also not to be a stumbling block to fellow believers...your pastor's family sure could use a reminder of that.

Best wishes, hon!

ziggytarheel Posted 4 Oct 2008 , 3:16pm
post #60 of 74

Maybe I missed it, but I still haven't seen that you actually gave them a price that was agreed upon before the cake was made?

If you didn't, then try to look at it from their perspective. If they had no idea how much it would cost, it might have been a knock-the-wind-out-of you experience to hear it after the cake had been consumed. Nobody is saying it wasn't worth the price, but they might have been shocked and not prepared for the price.

BUT, someone then should have said, "I'm sorry, but that is way out of the church budget. Can we work something out?"

In any case, I wouldn't assume anything. It could have been a simple mistake. Don't assume the worst unless you have evidence showing it is the worst case. Simply tell them that there is another $50 due and see what happens. If then you find you are up against shady dealings, then you should act appropriately. There are clear biblical standards to handle this. If it was paid for out of the church budget, what would be the motivation for shortchanging you anyway?

But, I have read on here time and again about situations where a cake is decorated and delivered and then the price is brought up. That's just not fair to anyone. Few people have unlimited budgets and assumptions get everyone in trouble. I am sure most people think "sheet cake from Walmart" when they think of the price for such a thing.

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