I Might Buy A Building...how Big Should My Kitchen Be?

Business By jjandhope Updated 23 Sep 2008 , 8:33pm by ziggytarheel

jjandhope Posted 21 Sep 2008 , 12:28am
post #1 of 22

I'm thinking about buying a morgan building for my backyard to bake in. It is 13 x 23. It has to be equipped with commerical appliances and 3 compartment sink to be legal in my area. I have already purchased a stacked blodgett oven. I have done a layout plan, shifting around little peices of paper representing the appliances and it looks like it might fit, but Im not sure.

If anyone has any advice or has such a kitchen and wouldnt mind sharing the measurements, it would help. Thanks

21 replies
indydebi Posted 21 Sep 2008 , 1:22am
post #2 of 22

In my state, the HD has to approve the floor plan, so you might check with them to see if there are any special requirements in your state.

jjandhope Posted 21 Sep 2008 , 1:47am
post #3 of 22

I have the complete set of guidelines from the HD right here on the table beside me. Yes, I will have to submit the floorplan before I start.

Any thoughts on size? What Im trying to do is determine if I will feel cramped or if this will be a "do-able" amount of space. Anyone with any speculations on that???...

Mike1394 Posted 21 Sep 2008 , 2:12am
post #4 of 22

What is a morgan building? If it's a steel building I would check first if that's allowable. As for the size I think it's to small.

Mike

jjandhope Posted 21 Sep 2008 , 2:19am
post #5 of 22

Its a prefab portbale building. Finished out and with windows, etc. It is legal for my use. But, you're right, it may be TOO small. Thanks for casting your vote! Thats what I need.

Any other opinions on size?

Mike1394 Posted 21 Sep 2008 , 2:28am
post #6 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjandhope

Its a prefab portbale building. Finished out and with windows, etc. It is legal for my use. But, you're right, it may be TOO small. Thanks for casting your vote! Thats what I need.

Any other opinions on size?




Oh that is cool then. The way mine is laid out 1/2 of my space is 12x 25. I can't imagine how cramped it would be if I had to be confined to that space. Good luck though

Mike

indydebi Posted 21 Sep 2008 , 3:13am
post #7 of 22

You might follow this other thread also ... someone asked for pics of kitchens in this thread, so those who figured out how to do it in a smaller space might post some pics that would help you see a set-up.

http://www.cakecentral.com/cake-decorating-ftopict-603241-kitchen.html

littlecake Posted 21 Sep 2008 , 1:55pm
post #8 of 22

i have 4 rooms at my shop...

the one i decorate and do dishes, and mix up stuff in, is 16 by 18...it's a good size, i was looking at it, and if i had to i could fit my oven and freezer in here too...but i think it would be a pretty tight fit.

would the next size up be very much more $$$$?

sweetcakes Posted 21 Sep 2008 , 5:15pm
post #9 of 22

my space is 10x23, and you make do with what you have, id love to have more room, but i dont. as long as your space is organized it will work.

jjandhope Posted 21 Sep 2008 , 7:21pm
post #10 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlecake

i have 4 rooms at my shop...

the one i decorate and do dishes, and mix up stuff in, is 16 by 18...it's a good size, i was looking at it, and if i had to i could fit my oven and freezer in here too...but i think it would be a pretty tight fit.

would the next size up be very much more $$$$?




Well, the thing is, Im not buying it new from the company. Used, it is about 1/3 the price, buying it slightly used from my Mom. It would also help her out. (althought that would just be a secondary benefit).

I have looked at others in the same price range, but they are not finished out like this one, so by the time I put the money in to finsh it out, it would be back up again.

I'm trying to start up for 15,000. I know thats not much.

jjandhope Posted 21 Sep 2008 , 7:54pm
post #11 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetcakes

my space is 10x23, and you make do with what you have, id love to have more room, but i dont. as long as your space is organized it will work.




Wow...so you can really do it with that much space? Do you have big commercial equipment in it??

Hmmmm, mine would be 3 feet wider x 23, so about 69 more syaure fett than yours. I would be interested to know what youve got in it and how it is arranged. Do you overflow to other rooms (that wont be an option for me).

Im worried that Ill hate it and feel too cramped. Do you feel that way in your space? Like you cant move around?

Sorry for all the questions, but the size is so similar, I just cant help myself...

andysprite Posted 21 Sep 2008 , 8:25pm
post #12 of 22

We are preparing to build a 16'x24' commercial kitchen next to our home. Compared to my residential kitchen, the commercial one is going to be huge! I plan to have lots of windows to keep it from feeling like a cave. There is also a small bathroom (as required by the state) and the rest is pretty much wide open. Lots of counter and shelf space. I think it will work great as I will be the only one working in there.

I think you would be happy with 13"x23". And it sounds like you're getting a whopper of a deal on a building! I think you can make it work. If your business is a huge success you can always add on or build another one later!

sweetcakes Posted 22 Sep 2008 , 12:04am
post #13 of 22

i have a 3 comp sink and hand sink at one end, did not have to have a mop sink. i have a kitchen aid double wall oven, really would like a commercial Deluxe but have no room for that. i have a bakers rack which in invaluable. then i have a 4 range cook top in my counter and a mixer sits either side of that, then i have a commercial arctic air fridge and freezer, coming down the other side of the kitchen i nothing but counter space. my cabinets go to the ceiling (9ft) i dont feel cramped in there by myself but i do if someone is in there with me. everything has a place, and i think i have it pretty well equiped. if i get so busy that i out grow this place then i will look for a store front, but id have to be pretty busy for that. its certainly doable. im very happy and pleased i have it.

jjandhope Posted 22 Sep 2008 , 1:56am
post #14 of 22

thanks andysprite and sweetcakes! That is very encouraging. I'm going to do really look into it tomorrow (contact the HD, etc). I have already gotten the regs, but will talk to a real human tomorrow and see whats next. Did you have to deal with that as well? Im wondering about the intital inspection, since its not on my property. I want to know for sure that I can make it a legal before I commit to buying it.

Thanks for the encouragement. How mch business do you guys do from those kitchens?

CoutureCake Posted 22 Sep 2008 , 5:55am
post #15 of 22

Arguably I dealt with less space when I was renting but it was a huge floro space poorly laid out...

The kitchen we're planning to build is 24x30 finished. Like another said, you've got to factor in that the HD is going to have a load of changes for you to make. OTOH, it is doable for a basic space just make sure you've got the room to expand because you don't want to find yourself down the road booked solid needing the extra storage space and no place to do it then having to come up with the necessary $$$$$ to setup a new space...

It's just something to consider but it's the factor of "get legal" then figure that other stuff out. Like you, I'm attempting to put everything together on a shoestring, but also, put together that shoestring with zero debt to do it! I've got to say, focusing on the zero debt is making me really make smart decisions instead of easy ones. I've also learned "The commercial property auctions are your friend to fill a space"...

andysprite Posted 22 Sep 2008 , 1:33pm
post #16 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjandhope

thanks andysprite and sweetcakes! That is very encouraging. I'm going to do really look into it tomorrow (contact the HD, etc). I have already gotten the regs, but will talk to a real human tomorrow and see whats next. Did you have to deal with that as well? Im wondering about the intital inspection, since its not on my property. I want to know for sure that I can make it a legal before I commit to buying it.

Thanks for the encouragement. How mch business do you guys do from those kitchens?




I've talked to our local and state HD several times. Ask LOTS of questions and write downs names and dates every time you talk to someone. Chances are that you're going to get different info from both places.
I'm not operating out of my kitchen yet, as I'm waiting on my approval letter from the state health department. Lord willing, we'll start building this weekend.
What kind of water supply does the building have?

jjandhope Posted 23 Sep 2008 , 12:10pm
post #17 of 22

The buidling is at my mom's right now, which I think may make it hard to deal with the HD. There, it has well water, but when I move it to my home it will have city. Is that what you're asking??

Since the building is not on site, (and mom lives out of city limits), Im not sure how to get HD to lok at it. I thought about getting on the manufacturer's website and printing out the floorplan of the building and then drawing in my plans for a start.

Yesterday intalking to the HD I got the runaround. When I called, they sent me to zoning, saying I couldn't do it. Well, I had already BEEN through zoning. Wehn I called zoning the girl that answered my question was new and looking for loopholes and told me no. I went around the rest of the day wondering what organs I could sell, so that I could just open a storefront. I was pretty depressed. The finally it dawned on me that I should not give up so easily.

I called back and asked for the person I had talked to months ago. I didnt get him, but I did get the chief building inspector and the person in charge of planning for the whole city and they confirmed that I could have it in my home and even gave me a NAME to speak to at the HD. I love having a name to talk to...because some of the people there dont know what theyre talking about. So today, I begin with HD again.

Hope everything goes well for you andysprite! (sorry this is so long)

andysprite Posted 23 Sep 2008 , 1:12pm
post #18 of 22

We currently have well water and were given the option to either hook up to city water (about $2000) or install the purifiers, etc. to make our well water usable. We were told that it would cost more to make our well water usable than it would to actually build our building.

Something else to consider......it might be less hassle for you to leave the building at your mom's. City rules and regs are much more strict than rural ones. There are no zoning restrictions, building permits, etc. for a rural building. Although, some of that might differ by state.

You might check into the cost of having city water run to the building where it sits now. It might be way cheaper than all the permits and such that you'd have to get to move the building to your place.

And don't give up when talking to the HD! Just keep calling back and asking questions until you find out what you need to know. They should have a packet of info to send you or at the very least a website. What state are you in?

ziggytarheel Posted 23 Sep 2008 , 7:14pm
post #19 of 22

This may not be pertinent, but I would feel awful if I didn't mention this and there was a problem later.

I would not recommend just asking government people the same question until you get the answer you want. I would be sure that the laws and regulations support what you are doing.

There was an infamous case here a while back. A man got permission to build a detached garage on his property in a city neighborhood. Unfortunately, he was given that permission in error. This was discovered after he had built the garage and despite all of his efforts, the garage had to be torn down. I can't remember if the city got out of owing him anything or not. There were lots of issues involved.

At any rate, the government is not like the corner store. Just because you have someone's name who told you something does not mean you can use them as your reason. For example, if someone at the IRS gives you bad information, you still owe the tax, even if you were told you don't.

Like I said not pertinent, probably, but I wanted to say something, just in case. icon_smile.gif

littlecake Posted 23 Sep 2008 , 7:23pm
post #20 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by andysprite



Something else to consider......it might be less hassle for you to leave the building at your mom's. City rules and regs are much more strict than rural ones. There are no zoning restrictions, building permits, etc. for a rural building. Although, some of that might differ by state.

You might check into the cost of having city water run to the building where it sits now. It might be way cheaper than all the permits and such that you'd have to get to move the building to your place.




i was thinking the very same thing...a lot less hoops to jump thru this way...(around here anyway)

andysprite Posted 23 Sep 2008 , 8:26pm
post #21 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggytarheel

This may not be pertinent, but I would feel awful if I didn't mention this and there was a problem later.

I would not recommend just asking government people the same question until you get the answer you want. I would be sure that the laws and regulations support what you are doing.




Sorry. I didn't mean to imply that you should keep asking until you get the answer you want. I meant to keep asking until you get an answer....period. As mentioned in my post above, they should have paperwork to support everything they tell you. Try to get the rules and regs in writing before pursuing this.

ziggytarheel Posted 23 Sep 2008 , 8:33pm
post #22 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by andysprite

Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggytarheel

This may not be pertinent, but I would feel awful if I didn't mention this and there was a problem later.

I would not recommend just asking government people the same question until you get the answer you want. I would be sure that the laws and regulations support what you are doing.




Sorry. I didn't mean to imply that you should keep asking until you get the answer you want. I meant to keep asking until you get an answer....period. As mentioned in my post above, they should have paperwork to support everything they tell you. Try to get the rules and regs in writing before pursuing this.




Oh no. I didnt' think anyone was saying that. I just...well, I would feel awful if anyone thought it could work that way. I have a tremendous responsibility complex...icon_smile.gif

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