Cres Posted 12 Jul 2008 , 12:59am
post #1 of

After browsing through the CC forum, I was so excited to buy vinyl for rolling out my fondant when I came across this site discussing how PVC, more commonly known as vinyl, is one of the most hazardous yet commonly used materials in homes, offices, etc.

http://www.chej.org/BESAFE/pvc/about.htm

Reading how even the "new car or shower curtain smell" (compliments of PVC) is highly toxic to the body gave me shivers just thinking how much toxins my fondant will be absorbing once I roll it out on a vinyl mat.

Oh well. Guess I'll just really have to invest in a good silicone mat. I'd never live with myself if I even think I was somehow responsible for slowly poisoning my little niece and nephews.

Granted that basically every room in my house has PVC products (and I doubt if I can find an alternative for each of them). But I still wouldn't dream of actually using PVC to prepare any food I serve.

Just thought I should give CC'ers a heads up.

27 replies
foxymomma521 Posted 12 Jul 2008 , 1:13am
post #2 of

Thanks for sharing.

Cakepro Posted 12 Jul 2008 , 3:31am
post #3 of

Hmmmm.....waiting for some of our consumer advocate members to weigh in here.

BlakesCakes Posted 12 Jul 2008 , 3:31am
post #4 of

Yesssssssssss, this has been brought up before................sigh..............

The phthalates used to make vinyl flexible aren't good for us.

The greatest concern has been the use of phthalates in toys and teething rings, etc.--those things that kids might chew on constantly and over long periods of time.

It's like many other current "hot button" environmental issues where some are convinced that the new shower curtain is a death knell --I change my VINYL curtain every 4 months--I'll let you know..........

My personal take is that the incidental contact between vinyl & fondant can't be any worse than incidental contact with silicone--even "food grade" shouldn't actually be ingested and I'm sure that friction causes the release of particles from both surfaces.

No one using vinyl to roll fondant on is making anyone's niece or nephew "sick"!

Just my honest .02
Rae

Shola Posted 12 Jul 2008 , 9:21am
post #5 of

Hmmm, makes you think, I remember hearing the exact same thing about cling film though (saran wrap) icon_confused.gif

aswartzw Posted 14 Jul 2008 , 8:27pm
post #6 of
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakesCakes

No one using vinyl to roll fondant on is making anyone's niece or nephew "sick"!




So sick as in immediate or long-term because you are exposing them to carcinogens which accumulate over time to cause cancer. So yes, you are making them sick whether you want to admit it or not.

but.... deodorant is a carcinogen, toothpaste is a carcinogen, etc. etc.

I guess the real issue is where do you draw the line because the majority of stuff you use is a carcinogen.

There are so many things people use to make their cakes that aren't food safe, the vinyl, for one, foam rollers, clay products, etc. that I guess we just have to pick our battles.

BlakesCakes Posted 14 Jul 2008 , 8:45pm
post #7 of
Quote:
Originally Posted by aswartzw

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakesCakes

No one using vinyl to roll fondant on is making anyone's niece or nephew "sick"!



So sick as in immediate or long-term because you are exposing them to carcinogens which accumulate over time to cause cancer. So yes, you are making them sick whether you want to admit it or not.

but.... deodorant is a carcinogen, toothpaste is a carcinogen, etc. etc.

I guess the real issue is where do you draw the line because the majority of stuff you use is a carcinogen.

There are so many things people use to make their cakes that aren't food safe, the vinyl, for one, foam rollers, clay products, etc. that I guess we just have to pick our battles.





You are SOOOOOOOOO RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!! In the overall picture of things, we're all killing ourselves and each other with every manmade, synthetic product & all subsequent by-produts.

Every item that makes our lives more convenient is a nail in our coffins.

NO ONE should eat cake--especially cake with icing--because refined white sugar, corn syrup, and the fats in these products shouldn't be present in the human diet.

People who create high fat, high sugar products are contributing to the obesity epidemic in the world. They are enabling sugar addicts and compulsive eaters. They have no regard for the well-being of the world. If they use teflon coated pans, knives, or spatulas, they are in complete disregard of the health of others.

It's all just a plot to make things worse.

Now, that foolishness said, You are right--WE EACH HAVE THE RIGHT TO PICK AND CHOOSE THE AWFUL THINGS WE DO TO OURSELVES AND EACH OTHER EVERY MORNING WHEN WE GET OUT OF BED.

I just happen to be sick of the "henny penny's" of the world who title posts with "buzz" words like POISON to advance their own agenda. There are plenty of ways to educate people without scaring them. True education presents both sides and allows the student to use the information to come to their own decision. It doesn't beat them over the head with a guilt trip based on only one side of the story.

I have "picked my battle"--at least one of them-- and it is to present the "other" side of the story........................

Rae

nutcase68 Posted 14 Jul 2008 , 8:56pm
post #8 of

Oh well. Guess I'll just really have to invest in a good silicone mat.


That is just what the silicone mat people want you to do. My vinyle mat is starting to peel, so if you don't want your old one, I will take it.

pish Posted 14 Jul 2008 , 8:57pm
post #9 of

oh I am so going to get "flamed" for this...

Isn't is sad that in today society, being born is a death sentence?

Thank you for the information. You can never learn too much icon_biggrin.gif

buttercream_dreams Posted 15 Jul 2008 , 3:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nutcase68

Oh well. Guess I'll just really have to invest in a good silicone mat.


That is just what the silicone mat people want you to do. My vinyle mat is starting to peel, so if you don't want your old one, I will take it.




lol!!! the "silicone mat people" i love it.
but seriously, too true...
come to the dark side people...
roll on vinyl!!!
MUWAHAHA! icon_evil.gificon_lol.gif

beachcakes Posted 15 Jul 2008 , 3:53pm

I didn't read the article, but chances are the pipes in your house are pvc?

BlakesCakes Posted 15 Jul 2008 , 10:02pm

Many people have PVC pipes in their homes. If the pipe is used for drinking water (potable), it must be made a certain way and marked. At this time, using PVC for potable water isn't very common.

The issue has more to do with the flexibility of the polyvinylchloride piping. The more flexible, the more phthalates (the questionable compound). Home piping for drinking water is generally not very flexible, so it has fewer phthalates.

Rae

nutcase68 Posted 15 Jul 2008 , 10:08pm

[quote="
The issue has more to do with the flexibility of the polyvinylchloride piping. The more flexible, the more phthalates (the questionable compound). Home piping for drinking water is generally not very flexible, so it has fewer phthalates.

Rae[/quote]

Have you ever installed an icemaker or drinking water to a refridgerater? The reverse osmosis system for your drinking water is set up the same way. All flex hose.

BlakesCakes Posted 15 Jul 2008 , 11:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nutcase68


Have you ever installed an icemaker or drinking water to a refridgerater? The reverse osmosis system for your drinking water is set up the same way. All flex hose.




Right---that type of flexible hose has to be rated for potable water. It may be made flexible by something other than phthalates or it may be coated inside to prevent "heavy" exposure of the water to the tubing.

The general thinking is that things that are being consumed or held in the mouth should not have LONG exposures to phthalates.

My argument is that rolling fondant on vinyl is SHORT/INCIDENTAL exposure and, therefore, not a problem. People aren't eating fondant covered cake 3 times a day!

Rae

nutcase68 Posted 15 Jul 2008 , 11:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakesCakes

[ People aren't eating fondant covered cake 3 times a day!

Rae




Maybe people would be happier if they did. Too many grumpy people in the world.

onacakehigh Posted 16 Jul 2008 , 1:36am

I just watched a tv show, it was food networks "challenge", they were making cartoon cakes.
Atleast 2 of the competitors were using PVC pipes in their cakes, to make them stand up.
Just a thought.

ozgirl42 Posted 4 Mar 2012 , 12:02am

As soon as there is a catch cry about something being poisonous in cake decorating, my initial reaction is to go and find out as much information as I can about so I can make an informed decision about it.

After doing some extensive reading, the bottom line is the longer something is exposed to the relevent types of plastics (Polycarbonate and PVC that is flexible), the more BPAs and phthalates are absorbed by the food/drink. Not even canned goods are safe from this as the cans are lined with an epoxy resin that contains phthalates!

But the key words are LONG EXPOSURE.

Yes fondant may pick up a miniscule amount of these chemicals from a non 'food grade' vinyl mat, but in the overall exposure to BPAs and phthalates it isn't significant, when compared to exposure through other sources, especially when you start looking at items that have been canned or heated in containers that use the relevant plastics.

So yes the fondant may have been rolled out on a vinyl mat, but when you add all the canned drinks, the meat or vegetables and fruit that are wrapped in plastic, cheese wiz, canned whipped cream etc etc that is probably going to be served at the party, the fondant will be the one with the least significant amounts of BPAs and pthalates.

This site is the Australian consumer watchdog - CHOICE - discussion and investigation into food safe plastics. It was done in January 2010 so may not be up to date with current research.
http://www.choice.com.au/reviews-and-tests/food-and-health/food-and-drink/safety/plastic-food-containers.aspx

josefina20 Posted 4 Mar 2012 , 12:33am

great post. thanks so much

JWinslow Posted 4 Mar 2012 , 1:30am

Thank You BlakesCakes!!!! Just Thank you!.

step0nmi Posted 4 Mar 2012 , 1:54am

two words for you....THE MAT icon_wink.gif that's for rolling out your fondant and it's amazing! http://sweetwise.com/mat-featured-product/the-mat.html

BlakesCakes Posted 4 Mar 2012 , 3:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWinslow

Thank You BlakesCakes!!!! Just Thank you!.




Well, now, you might not want to thank me when I'm finished this post because..............the original post is 3 YEARS OLD. Not sure who, how, where, or why it was resurrected, but here goes.....

Since I responded to the original post in 2008, SweetWise had developed and manufactured a FOOD GRADE VINYL MAT--"The Mat". Now that I have a food grade alternative, I use The Mat to roll my fondant. No more fabric store vinyl--it can be manufactured using all types of waste materials. I can't see the value in using ANY inferior product.

I'm a firm believer in evolving and evaluating. Now that I know better, I do better.

Rae

JWinslow Posted 4 Mar 2012 , 1:48pm

I too use The Mat and also have the blue silicone mats (I prefer The Mat). Your original posts are still relevant to how everything can be harmful. We all evolve with the times even when we don't try . I have a family member that believes and sends "Alarmist" information without knowledge behind it so this was all refreshing to read. However, It still saddens me to learn that we shouldn't be eating cake 3 times a day. I'll have to work on that- LOL

Jeanne

audrey0522 Posted 4 Mar 2012 , 8:37pm

I too thought the matt was the greatest thing, even though I make very few cakes. It didn't take long before it developed stretch marks (ripples?) that showed on my fondant. It isn't the most money I ever wasted but with shipping as high as it is now it was almost $30 and I can't use it! Other people have had the same issue. The company that sells the matt overed me $5 off a new one. I would expect a better discount considering it is a product flaw that they said a few have had. I watched all the films explaining the best ways to use it before I used it and never, never folded it. I am officially dissapointed with the Matt. SInce the fondant is only in contact with vinyl for such a short time I am just going to buy the cheaper stuff. It actually may not be that bad anyway. They have never explained how it is manufactored differently to make it food safe. A lot of vinyl and plastic products are considered food safe. It costs money to have a product verified food safe. Since most vinyl sold in fabric stores isn't expected to come in contact with food the money is not spent to verify it food safe or not. Wouldn't it be funny if it was really the same stuff and they just spent the money to have it verified! I would think it would be not as safe if it were heated which would allow whatever to escape. Just a thought.

mcaulir Posted 4 Mar 2012 , 9:24pm

I'm so glad I read your update, BlakesCakes. I was getting very confused, knowing that you usually argue on the other side of this particular issue!

I never look at the dates. icon_rolleyes.gif

step0nmi Posted 4 Mar 2012 , 10:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by audrey0522

I too thought the matt was the greatest thing, even though I make very few cakes. It didn't take long before it developed stretch marks (ripples?) that showed on my fondant. It isn't the most money I ever wasted but with shipping as high as it is now it was almost $30 and I can't use it! Other people have had the same issue. The company that sells the matt overed me $5 off a new one. I would expect a better discount considering it is a product flaw that they said a few have had. I watched all the films explaining the best ways to use it before I used it and never, never folded it. I am officially dissapointed with the Matt. SInce the fondant is only in contact with vinyl for such a short time I am just going to buy the cheaper stuff. It actually may not be that bad anyway. They have never explained how it is manufactored differently to make it food safe. A lot of vinyl and plastic products are considered food safe. It costs money to have a product verified food safe. Since most vinyl sold in fabric stores isn't expected to come in contact with food the money is not spent to verify it food safe or not. Wouldn't it be funny if it was really the same stuff and they just spent the money to have it verified! I would think it would be not as safe if it were heated which would allow whatever to escape. Just a thought.




i am curious as to how the "ripples" you speak of happened on your mat and how long you had it!? icon_confused.gif I have had mine for over a year now and nothing has happened to my mat. i keep it rolled up in the original case it came. if there is a defective one, i would think they would just send you a new one since i have heard that others were dissatisfied with how theirs arrived in a poor condition from shipping and they sent them a new one free of charge. just curious that's all

BlakesCakes Posted 4 Mar 2012 , 11:17pm

I have every faith that the people at SweetWise actually researched & developed a food safe product and I'm not fond of trying to denigrate that process, the product, or the producers just because one's results haven't been "perfect".....................

I don't roll between 2 mats. never have, prefer not to. I roll on one "Mat". It remains stuck to my counter top (with water) at all times. I cover it with parchment or a dish towel when not in use. I'm very, very careful not to put anything very warm, and certainly not hot, on it.

The current piece has been on the counter for about 18 months. Time to put down a new piece, as I, unfortunately, cut thru the current piece. I'll cut it into some smaller pieces and use it whenever. It has no ripples in it.

Now, maybe you got a bad piece. I suppose that happens. Ripples in vinyl are usually the result of heat being applied or it having been stretched, especially while warm (from hot water, etc.).

Rae

audrey0522 Posted 5 Mar 2012 , 1:40am

I used it about 5 or 6 times. I am just a hobby baker and I don't make a lot of cakes. I watched the youtube videos on how to use it and never folded it. Always put it back in the tube it came in. They said they had heard from 5 or 6 people with the same problems. I have heard of a few more people with the same issue but since it wasn't an expensive item they did not contact the company. I didn't expect a free replacement but $5 off was not enough to make be want to take another chance on it. I think I (and the others) just may have gotten a "bad piece". I was very surprised they did didn't stand behind the product better. I really loved it at first so I am very disapointed it did not hold up better.

audrey0522 Posted 5 Mar 2012 , 1:44am

to BlakesCakes
I have never cleaned the product with any thing but a papertowel. Certainly never used hot water. I would lay it out flat and then roll it up and put it back in the tube. I do agree I ( and a few others) just recieved a "bad section". I think with all that is manufactured it would not be unusual. I offered to mail back my defective pieces.

Quote by @%username% on %date%

%body%