Would You Do " The Knot"

Business By snarkybaker Updated 12 Jul 2008 , 10:31pm by sugarlove

snarkybaker Posted 7 Jul 2008 , 5:33pm
post #1 of 54

We got a phone call last week about "The Knot" magazine wanting to do a profile on our shop. So dummy cakes etc etc...but exposure in a national magazine. Wouldn't it bet cool to have " " As seen in The Knot" on posters at the next bridal show, etc.

The part of the deal that they want is an advertising commitment from us, and not a cheap one, but not any more expensive than a lot of other advertising sources. I know an awful lot of brides are "knotties", but the question is how much attention do they really pay to the editorial, and how much do they just take referrals from the forums, which in this area favor the less expensive, home bakers over us.

53 replies
Chef_Stef Posted 7 Jul 2008 , 5:40pm
post #2 of 54

My DH is my advertising guru, and he pretty much *forbids* me to ever pay for ANY advertising where I'm "sharing ad space", where it's me and a bunch of other bakeries. He always shakes his head and says, "I don't care HOW neat the magazine is or how exciting it will be to have a color ad with your cakes in it, you never share advertising space!" And so I pout, and tell them thanks but no thanks. Someday maybe I'll do it anyway, but he's never been wrong with business decisions in the 21 years I've known and worked with him, so I keep listening, even though part of me really wants to be in those magazines...

His other advice is "Why do you need national advertising? You're spending money to advertise in a non-local market! That's the worst possible way to spend your ad $." I wish he wasn't so realistic sometimes, lol.

Flip side--it would be really cool to have a "as seen in The Knot" poster.

I'm no help, lol

Let us know what you do and how it turns out!

snarkybaker Posted 7 Jul 2008 , 5:43pm
post #3 of 54

See, that's it...It's not just an AD in The Knot, it's pictures of our cakes as part of an article in the Knot. They just prefer to use their advertisers as the subjects of their articles.

loriemoms Posted 7 Jul 2008 , 5:48pm
post #4 of 54

I get calls like this ALL THE TIME. I agree with homecook's DH. If you want to be "featured" in an article, I would contact some local magazines. We have a ton of little local magazines that cater to just brides and hand out these free magazines to them at shows, at David's bridal, etc. They are cheaper and get better exposure then the Knot. We also have a "living" magazine that is at the grocery stores and such that also has "feature articles" in it that you can pay to advertise. The price of doing all of these magazines is still cheaper then one ad in the Knot. and they are all local. (these are nice glossy magazines, not penny savers, etc)

If you are DYING to advertize with the knot, they do have a web site ad that lets you put on 10 photos and a little blurb about youself and links, etc, for A LOT less then the print ad. Local brides look at that more then the magazine, as it links to their "local resources" when they sign up.

aswartzw Posted 7 Jul 2008 , 5:54pm
post #5 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by txkat

See, that's it...It's not just an AD in The Knot, it's pictures of our cakes as part of an article in the Knot. They just prefer to use their advertisers as the subjects of their articles.




Now I'm not so fond of The Knot. The fact that they only show pictures of cakes of those who sponser them???? It has very limited sources and is providing their readers with a biased magazine if that's the case. Really makes me not want to buy their magazine now.

snarkybaker Posted 7 Jul 2008 , 5:56pm
post #6 of 54

I wouldn't advertise online with The Knot alone. I just don't think brides read much on the knot other than the forums, but lots of brides pick up the magazine to look at the shiny pictures, and it would be cool to have our cake in an article next to one of Cheryl Kleiman's etc.

Can't decide if its worth it or not. It's still less than half of what we were spending on radio advertising.

Doug Posted 7 Jul 2008 , 5:57pm
post #7 of 54

the internet is NOT national advertising --

it's as local as local can get....

although there is global access to the internet, by it's very nature it can be as local as a google search will let you zoom in -- which can be a single address.

---
as for The Knot magazine -- it's a portal that will hopefully drive business to their website where they will find your listing. -- so, depending upon how much crossover to web occurs from the print feature article, it could be worth it. Brides do buy it and look at it, no matter where they live and will zero in on the vendors local to them.

----

the there's the "cachet" factor -- that undefinable, unquantifiable boost to business that comes from being "a nationally recognized" business -- consider what the food challenges and OSSAS have done for many decorators. Their cachet factor jumped allowing them to command higher prices, etc. -- do I need to say anything more than "Duff"? It's the NAH-NAH factor under another guise -- I got what you don't -- a high-end cake from a big name decorator.

THAT cachet must be factored in. It WILL have a pay off to the bottom line.

IF it fits in your planned expenses for advertising and won't make the budget all wonky, then I'd say go for it.

Oh, and be prepared to come up w/ a policy on shipping cakes icon_rolleyes.gif and upgrade the website to handle more demand.

doitallmom Posted 7 Jul 2008 , 5:59pm
post #8 of 54

Wow, that's news to know.

snarkybaker Posted 7 Jul 2008 , 6:03pm
post #9 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by aswartzw

Quote:
Originally Posted by txkat

See, that's it...It's not just an AD in The Knot, it's pictures of our cakes as part of an article in the Knot. They just prefer to use their advertisers as the subjects of their articles.



Now I'm not so fond of The Knot. The fact that they only show pictures of cakes of those who sponser them???? It has very limited sources and is providing their readers with a biased magazine if that's the case. Really makes me not want to buy their magazine now.




Think about it. You are a magazine editor. You are doing a story on the new trend of " nature inspired wedding cakes". You need pretty pictures of ten cakes. Do you call Ron ben Israel every single time, or do you cal one of the bakeries that advertises with you as in " pays your salary" and help the overall financial health of your employer. It's not stupid. I just can't decide if its worth it.

btrsktch Posted 7 Jul 2008 , 6:06pm
post #10 of 54

I'd do it. The Knot is the #1 place to go to get local wedding information (when I got married, Wedding Channel was a big competitor, but isn't as much anymore). IMHO, you can't beat that kind of exposure.

I agree, as long as the cost fits in your budget, go for it, and also be ready to handle the increase in demand!

aswartzw Posted 7 Jul 2008 , 6:09pm
post #11 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by txkat

Quote:
Originally Posted by aswartzw

Quote:
Originally Posted by txkat

See, that's it...It's not just an AD in The Knot, it's pictures of our cakes as part of an article in the Knot. They just prefer to use their advertisers as the subjects of their articles.



Now I'm not so fond of The Knot. The fact that they only show pictures of cakes of those who sponser them???? It has very limited sources and is providing their readers with a biased magazine if that's the case. Really makes me not want to buy their magazine now.



Think about it. You are a magazine editor. You are doing a story on the new trend of " nature inspired wedding cakes". You need pretty pictures of ten cakes. Do you call Ron ben Israel every single time, or do you cal one of the bakeries that advertises with you as in " pays your salary" and help the overall financial health of your employer. It's not stupid. I just can't decide if its worth it.




While it is a smart business decision, they are limiting their customers only to the advertisers who pay them. I guess I'd rather open a magazine expecting a cake to be there because it's unique and well executed and not just because someone is paying the magazine editor to put it there.

Also, I do prefer online browsing to buying a magazine (for those debating the web versus magazine). I can save the pictures, easily link to the website that provided it, but I have been severely disappointed in the limited variety of bakeries (now I understand why).

Doug Posted 7 Jul 2008 , 6:10pm
post #12 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by txkat

I wouldn't advertise online with The Knot alone. I just don't think brides read much on the knot other than the forums, but lots of brides pick up the magazine to look at the shiny pictures, and it would be cool to have our cake in an article next to one of Cheryl Kleiman's etc.

Can't decide if its worth it or not. It's still less than half of what we were spending on radio advertising.




whoa nelly.....

modern brides not on the internet???

(pardon me while I laugh long and loud!)

oh heavens, today's brides are as addicted to the internet as they are to texting and having that phone plastered to their ears full time.

and ....

they WILL research vendors online
they DO check online forums for recommendations
they WILL look at what others have said about vendors on user forums like The Knot.

the world of print is quickly finding out that online media is where it is at.

Noticed how every major newspaper and now every local paper has to have an online presence too? As technology converges more and more, the role of print media for news and advertising is going to fade...fade...fade.

AllCakedOut Posted 7 Jul 2008 , 6:10pm
post #13 of 54

I would run - not walk - away from this "opportunity".

I can't speak for any other area.. but locally, The Knot is losing advertisers like crazy. I know a ton of vendors who have advertised with them in the past, none have / are going to renew. No one here gets response from their ads, and it's EXPENSIVE!

I know it's the same in some other areas of the country, and that's got to be hurting them.

No offense to you, but across the country, they have a HUGE pool of advertisers to get photos from. You have to wonder - is it because your work is *that* much better than anyone that advertises with them, or is it that they're using it as a hook to get NEW advertisers?

I personally don't trust them as far as I can throw them. Dealing with their customer service is horrid, they do NOT produce the results they offer, and the right hand never, ever knows what the left is doing.. nevermind all the crimes against the cake industry they've commited! (lol!)

Hope this helps. I'd just hate to see someone get suckered into that kind of an expensive commitment.

tonedna Posted 7 Jul 2008 , 6:12pm
post #14 of 54

Yup.. Dough is right.. the knot is a National Magazine but is very local for every state..So you wont see the same magazine as you would

AllCakedOut Posted 7 Jul 2008 , 6:22pm
post #15 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by btrsktch

I'd do it. The Knot is the #1 place to go to get local wedding information (when I got married, Wedding Channel was a big competitor, but isn't as much anymore).




Wedding Channel and The Knot are the same company. Same with another.. Partyspot maybe? When I signed up with The Knot, the deal was that you got listings on all 3.

Doug Posted 7 Jul 2008 , 6:22pm
post #16 of 54

txkat --

having just done the tour of your website --

sorry to say, but, well, looking at it with a bride's eyes -- I'd pass you by.

Why--

no gallery of wedding cakes -- heck, no real gallery at all.

menu of lunch specials????? what's that got to do w/ weddings?

events -- well la-dee-dah -- what do I care -- what are your available dates for MY wedding

"bespoke" cute - but no sale -- too obtuse to be clearly your flavors menu, almost pretentious.

too scatter shot -- just what are you? a bakery? a cake shop? a cookie shop? a breakfast and lunch only restaurant?

your message is too diluted and convoluted. (spaghetti w/ really runny sauce!)

----

better to create at least TWO websites (see IndyDebi's for example -- one for her catering business and one for her cookies)

one for your breakfast/lunch shop and a totally separate one for your cakes and cupcakes.

FOCUS the message -- target the audience clearly
(use a sniper rifle not as shotgun!)

you've obviously got "mad" skills and a fantastic product. -- Now give it the respect and promotion it deserves with bespoke websites for each aspect of the business.

snarkybaker Posted 7 Jul 2008 , 6:22pm
post #17 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug

Quote:
Originally Posted by txkat

I wouldn't advertise online with The Knot alone. I just don't think brides read much on the knot other than the forums, but lots of brides pick up the magazine to look at the shiny pictures, and it would be cool to have our cake in an article next to one of Cheryl Kleiman's etc.

Can't decide if its worth it or not. It's still less than half of what we were spending on radio advertising.



whoa nelly.....

modern brides not on the internet???

(pardon me while I laugh long and loud!)

oh heavens, today's brides are as addicted to the internet as they are to texting and having that phone plastered to their ears full time.

and ....

they WILL research vendors online
they DO check online forums for recommendations
they WILL look at what others have said about vendors on user forums like The Knot.

the world of print is quickly finding out that online media is where it is at.

Noticed how every major newspaper and now every local paper has to have an online presence too? As technology converges more and more, the role of print media for news and advertising is going to fade...fade...fade.




Oh Doug, I am with you as far as the amount of research they do online, I'm just not sure they pay that much attention to the ADS on theknot.com. What they tend to do is post on the local forums " need a wedding cake baker in..." and several of their little knottie pals say " we used XXX and she was great", rather than look at the online ads. Most North Carolina brides aren't looking for $1000 cakes so the forums tend to favor the home bakers who can be a good deal cheaper than we can.

snarkybaker Posted 7 Jul 2008 , 6:28pm
post #18 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug

txkat --

having just done the tour of your website --

sorry to say, but, well, looking at it with a bride's eyes -- I'd pass you by.

Why--

no gallery of wedding cakes -- heck, no real gallery at all.

menu of lunch specials????? what's that got to do w/ weddings?

events -- well la-dee-dah -- what do I care -- what are your available dates for MY wedding

"bespoke" cute - but no sale -- too obtuse to be clearly your flavors menu, almost pretentious.

too scatter shot -- just what are you? a bakery? a cake shop? a cookie shop? a breakfast and lunch only restaurant?

your message is too diluted and convoluted. (spaghetti w/ really runny sauce!)

----

better to create at least TWO websites (see IndyDebi's for example -- one for her catering business and one for her cookies)

one for your breakfast/lunch shop and a totally separate one for your cakes and cupcakes.

FOCUS the message -- target the audience clearly
(use a sniper rifle not as shotgun!)

you've obviously got "mad" skills and a fantastic product. -- Now give it the respect and promotion it deserves with bespoke websites for each aspect of the business.




We have another website...just for weddings. Honestly we have been growing so fast that before we redo the website again, we want to decide on our core market....which, by the way, wasn't it you that just said the other day that every surviving bakery you knew of sold lunch ?

travelingcakeplate Posted 7 Jul 2008 , 6:46pm
post #19 of 54

Overall, if they want to feature your business then they should just feature your business.

Advertising and an editorial piece should not be one in the same because there is a conflict of interest. It's a lot like bribing.

National exposure is great, but only your advertising budget can tell you if it's really worth it at this time.

I wish you the best in whatever decision you make. icon_lol.gif

Doug Posted 7 Jul 2008 , 6:51pm
post #20 of 54

no, not every surviving baker -- just the one in my little town -- and yes between home bakers and wallyworld, et. al. the brides can certainly shop the price down.

personally, i believe once you hit a certain point ...

you can survive on cakes alone.

now getting up to that point.....

and you hit the nail on the head tho'

"we want to decide on our core market"

and getting to those $1,000K brides is a challenge.

do THEY read the knot?

at that level and beyond, I believe their looking for that "snoot/cachet" factor. (no longer keeping up with the jones but trying to do a total slam-dunk in your face sort of thing)

so ask yourself long and hard -- just whom do we wish to cater to (yea - a split infinitive -- true to my Midwest heritage).

and if it is those $1K brides -- then figure out where they're looking and getting their info from and put your advert $ there.

snarkybaker Posted 7 Jul 2008 , 6:54pm
post #21 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingcakeplate

Overall, if they want to feature your business then they should just feature your business.

Advertising and an editorial piece should not be one in the same because there is a conflict of interest. It's a lot like bribing.

National exposure is great, but only your advertising budget can tell you if it's really worth it at this time.




Yes, it is a lot like bribing, but the question is would you pay a bribe you could afford to be one of the Today show wedding cakes, for example ? It's a lot of exposure. It would probably be good for business.

Seriously, I have seen so many cakes here on CC that are sooo much better than some of Duff's cakes, and then I see they're being sold for $150. Why? because he is on TV.

I am sort of not interested in debating the morality of the situation. This is the way things work. I am just wondering if I can make them work to our advantage. The good news is that we wold be featured in the fall issue of the Knot, which is the biggest of the year, according to the publisher.

Doug Posted 7 Jul 2008 , 6:59pm
post #22 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by txkat

Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingcakeplate

Overall, if they want to feature your business then they should just feature your business.

Advertising and an editorial piece should not be one in the same because there is a conflict of interest. It's a lot like bribing.

National exposure is great, but only your advertising budget can tell you if it's really worth it at this time.



Yes, it is a lot like bribing, but the question is would you pay a bribe you could afford to be one of the Today show wedding cakes, for example ? It's a lot of exposure. It would probably be good for business.

Seriously, I have seen so many cakes here on CC that are sooo much better than some of Duff's cakes, and then I see they're being sold for $150. Why? because he is on TV.

I am sort of not interested in debating the morality of the situation. This is the way things work. I am just wondering if I can make them work to our advantage. The good news is that we wold be featured in the fall issue of the Knot, which is the biggest of the year, according to the publisher.




cachet

snoot appeal

national recognition factor

higher prices because of the above!

and chance to work on exclusivity! (can charge SO much that can do fewer cakes and still make a tidy profit. -- according to the cake facts on duff -- he only averages 15-20 cakes a week w/ a staff of 10, not counting Mary Alice the office manager --- hmmm 2 cakes a person covers all the overheard, salaries, etc. and the profit.)

milissasmom Posted 7 Jul 2008 , 7:13pm
post #23 of 54

PM Indydebi...I think she has tons of experience with The Knot over the years...Good luck

travelingcakeplate Posted 7 Jul 2008 , 7:15pm
post #24 of 54

In that case, GO FOR IT! I look forward to seeing you on the "BIG SCREEN" very soon.

MichelleM77 Posted 7 Jul 2008 , 7:18pm
post #25 of 54

Why can't you advertise in the local Knot magazine? Unless they have changed their magazine format, I purchased local versions of The Knot Magazine when I was planning my wedding.

I just checked online and they have 17 regional magazines. Are you in one of those areas? Can you just have them advertise for you in that area?

btrsktch Posted 7 Jul 2008 , 7:23pm
post #26 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllCakedOut


Wedding Channel and The Knot are the same company. Same with another.. Partyspot maybe? When I signed up with The Knot, the deal was that you got listings on all 3.




They might have bought them out, but a few years ago, they were very, very different and had different advertising practices. I can believe the Knot purchased WC was probably when WC changed to the new format and lost 90% of its forum members.

veronica720 Posted 7 Jul 2008 , 7:26pm
post #27 of 54

I am currnetly registered as a future bride on "The Knot" and I have looked at everything on there site. I especially check out the cakes all the time, since I am a decorator also. I have gotten alot of info from there, but I never even noticed who made what cake. I just saved the pics I liked to later take to a local bakery or to the venue for the on-site decorator. I would probably feel that the decorators in the articles would be more expensive since they are on the site or in the magazine.

snarkybaker Posted 7 Jul 2008 , 7:35pm
post #28 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichelleM77

Why can't you advertise in the local Knot magazine? Unless they have changed their magazine format, I purchased local versions of The Knot Magazine when I was planning my wedding.

I just checked online and they have 17 regional magazines. Are you in one of those areas? Can you just have them advertise for you in that area?




You can advertise in anything from just online up to national. There is an amount they want you spend to be included in the people they contact for editorial. It includes two editorial features in a year. That amount of money gets you ads in the national knot, the regional knot, and online.

CakeMakar Posted 7 Jul 2008 , 7:44pm
post #29 of 54

I agree, when I was a bride-to-be checking out the Knot, I merely drooled over the featured & advertising vendors - assuming they were out of my budget - regardless of whether they were or not, I didn't check. I saved the pretty pictures and looked for a tasty "regular" bakery. My cake budget was not small either (I like cake!), I had a 4 tiered chocolate behemoth. I did browse the online forums & ask and check out the local Knot pages.

However, if you're looking for the big contracts--a feature in a well-known media is the way to go, weather you had to pay for it to be there or not.
Good Luck!

Doug Posted 7 Jul 2008 , 7:45pm
post #30 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by txkat

There is an amount they want you spend to be included in the people they contact for editorial. It includes two editorial features in a year. That amount of money gets you ads in the national knot, the regional knot, and online.




in essence you're paying for an "advertorial" --- an ad disguised as an editorial.

in tv and movie industry this is called "product placement" -- like on the game shows where every prize is provided FREE of charge to show in return for "commercial consideration" -- aka the beauty shot of the price you might win! or how it movies ET ate Reeses Pieces or they used Pepsi in "Big" or the car the hero drives (Walker Texas Ranger and his Dodge Ram Truck for instance)

and since advert $ are a deductible business expense....

go for it....you know you want to .....

Quote by @%username% on %date%

%body%