Was It Always Like This?

Business By AllCakedOut Updated 11 Jul 2008 , 3:53pm by loriana

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flbeachbummom Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 4:00pm
post #91 of 226

Why begrudge someone their dream? There is plenty of work for any and all cake decorators. I've seen some that aren't good at all, but people still pay them to do cakes. Is it really about people thinking it's fluff and stuff or is it all about territory? For all of those who get asked if they can work for you free, just be polite and point them to the nearest cake decorating class. That shouldn't take much of your time.

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summernoelle Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 4:04pm
post #92 of 226

Whoa.
Welcome to CC!

Sorry, just had to add: Why does it need to be "insulting"? Why does it need to be "wasting your time"? If Bronwen Weber can sit down and give me 20 minutes of her time, you can surely do the same.
Be nice. There is too little of that going around!

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BCJean Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 4:13pm
post #93 of 226

[quote="AllCakedOut"]Oh whatever. Obviously a GOOD chunk of what I'm saying is getting lost here.

Yes, you are right. Most seem to think you are saying those people should not even try to be decorators or open their own business. I hear you saying, they should research the subject themselves instead of expecting to go to someone who has already done all of the work and you just do it all for them and hand them the key to their new bakery door. ...and all of this without a thank you.

I have had lots of people tell me they want to become a cake decorator. I made up a booklet of basic tips and what to do with them. Each time someone came to me I handed them one of those booklets and told them when they have finished it to come back and I would be happy to talk to them. Very few ever came back.

The comments people make are always there. How many times have I heard, my aunt used to decorate. I just smile at them. They are getting their cake from me. When someone is putting your cake down, ask yourself, who knows more about cake decorating...this person passing by or me? You know if your skills are good...don't worry about the rest.

I also don't understand the, "I have to have my own business" thing. Your hours aren't decided because you are the boss...they are decided because that is when the business is there or that is what it takes to have it done on time.

I love to decorate, don't want my own business. When I walk in I have a stack of maybe 30 orders to do. Someone else fills and ices the cakes for me. I decorate non stop for 7 hours...then do my clean up for the day and go home to a clean kitchen and can spend the rest of the day with my family. When decorating I go from, I want something tropical...okay no problem, to I want something to do with sports, or farm animals or princess or whatever. It is so fun to zap from one cake to the next squeezing that bag and giving these customers their hearts desire. My boss never gets in my way or tells me how to decorate a cake...they always know I know more about it than they do. I let them worry about making sure I have plenty of icing, that the electric bill was paid, etc.

32 years of this and going strong, with a smile on my face.

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FromScratch Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 4:17pm
post #94 of 226

Jes*s.. where was it ever written that someone couldn't come and vent about something without everyone getting offended. Take the personal out of it. The poor thing just wanted to vent.. and now she has to explain herself to to everyone because they feel insulted. icon_rolleyes.gif

Never was it said in literal terms that she thinks no one should try.. just don't expect the world to carry you. Do your own grunt work. And no.. grunt work isn't calling or e-mailing a baker and asking a list of everything you need to do to get going. Grunt work is coming here and asking or calling your state department to find out what is involved in getting licensed.

The point is.. can't people ever just take a vent for what it is?? Without acting like they were raked over the coals because the complaint *remotely* could have maybe sort-of in a way but not really resemble them? icon_confused.gif

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tcakes65 Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 4:17pm
post #95 of 226

This has been an interesting and intriguing thread. I don't believe someone has to have a business degree to run a business. A friend of mine runs three successful businesses without a college degree. I have a business degree with specializations in management and marketing. Does it help in my business? Sure. Only because I'm passionate about both sides. But being passionate about the business side can apply to anyone. When it comes to a cake business, you must have the passion or at least liking for both cake decorating and the business side or you're going to have a tough road ahead of you. I spend more of my time working on the business side than cake decorating. It may seem like a fun and easy business, but there is nothing easy about it. I would have to say the stress level is much higher than anything I experiened in the corporate world. You have to be prepared for everything that comes with it and not just the joy of cake decorating. When I started my business, the first thing my accountant did was quiz me about my seriousness. He wanted to make sure I was up for the challenge because he said most people start businesses with stars in their eyes with the end result being failure. I don't think the OP was being critical of others wanting to get into the business. If you're serious about it, you must educate yourself about the business itself. I think she just found it annoying how many people don't take us, our craft, and the industry seriously.

As for a cake decorating business not requiring much startup costs or that you can start a business with $100 or less. That's unrealistic in my opinion. If you open up a commercial cake business, a more realistic figure is $30,000, possibly more. In Florida, you are required to have specific commercial equipment. A commercial oven alone will cost you $4,000 easy. I'm sure the startup cost is less if you're able to start a legal business out of your home...you can't do that here in Florida. The startup costs are low compared to many other types of businesses, but I think saying you can start a cake business for $100 is misleading in most areas.

As for training someone for free, what if something happened to that person in your kitchen? Are you liable and looking at a potential law suit? I wouldn't do it only for my own protection. I just wanted to add that some people asking questions are looking for a legitimate mentor. It happens all the time in the corporate world. Although there are those that are looking for a free ride or someone to do their grunt work, there are those that are looking for a good mentor.

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Mike1394 Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 4:19pm
post #96 of 226

A lot of what is being said is " A passion for cakes". I'm in the process of opening a bakery. Cakes will be a part of it, not a large part. Do I have a passion for baking. or making cakes? Yes, BUT, and a big BUT. It is LESS of a passion to starting, creating, and carving out a niche of a business is the passion. two Sundays ago I just sold a business I had. Why did I sell a successful home based business? It was built, it thrived, I got bored. Will I do the same with the bakery? Who knows. A business is like a child. You nurture, and hopefully they don't end up in the dumpster.

Mike

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nickymom Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 4:25pm
post #97 of 226

First of all let me say I do NOT sell cakes and I do NOT intend to ever. I do cakes just for family & friends...it's a home hobby for me. I'm no professional & I realize that.LOL

With saying that though I personally don't see anything wrong w/ someone asking questions.......if it bothers you that much you should just probably ignore the e-mails or just tell those who ask in person that they need to contact their local health department and then go from there.....tell them that's the only advice you have. Anytime you run a business you're going to have people approach you w/ questions....rather it's annoying or not it's going to happen.

I also don't think that a person has to be business minded to run a successful business....they can hire people to take care of the business end for them while they do "the work".

Also, a cake business is not the only romanized thing out there......people do the same thing w/ babysitting (oh I want to open & run a daycare while not realizing they need certificates, inspections, etc. or how about small shops......there are all sorts of things that people get "turned on" to other than cakes.LOL

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staceyboots Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 4:26pm
post #98 of 226

i'll be honest...

i certainly can appreciate the comment about people thinking that they can look at the cake and replicate it in the blink of an eye...because i am one of those people.

i took two cake decorating classes locally, looked at a couple of cakes on websites and totally felt confident that i would have been able to reproduce them. boy, was i wrong!

this artform takes time and patience...and because of it, i have decided to slow down for a while and work more on perfecting the basics as opposed to jumping in the deep end and soliciting work from high-end clients.

so, i can understand the poster's frustration...can you imagine having people with practically no bakery/cake decorating experience calling your place of business and inquiring about internships? Free labour or not, i will a liability! if i went to work for a local bakery, i would probably rip their poor kitchen to shreds!! flour would be blowing out of the a/c vents...cakes with no eggs...and piping looking like it was written using the zigzag attachment for a sewing machine!

i am quite sure that the poster will more than welcome real talent when it comes walking through the door...i guess that he/she is just trying to drive home the point that cake decorating is by no means glamorous.

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Reedsmomma Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 4:27pm
post #99 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllCakedOut

Quote:
Originally Posted by foxymomma521


Well, why did you start your business? I'm sure you could have decorated for "someone else's business" but it just would not have been as fulfilling...



Because I came at it as entrepreneur first, decorator second icon_smile.gif

I not someone that is, urm.. shall we say "employable". LOL. Way too Type A icon_smile.gif




Shocking! icon_lol.gif

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AllCakedOut Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 4:34pm
post #100 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reedsmomma

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllCakedOut


Because I came at it as entrepreneur first, decorator second icon_smile.gif

I not someone that is, urm.. shall we say "employable". LOL. Way too Type A icon_smile.gif



Shocking! icon_lol.gif




I get it, it's totally ok to take shots at / outright insult me, because I ranted about something in general that people may have ended up seeing in themselves.

I get it, I was wrong, I'm a horrible person, and I totally deserve the personal attacks. Thanks.

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mashmellow Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 4:44pm
post #101 of 226

Allcakeout, I am so sorry you feel upset, like I said we are better that this.
let's put all this behind , not a good welcome ha. ?
Hope you fell better soon .GB

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springlakecake Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 4:48pm
post #102 of 226

oooo...this thing is getting off track! I don't really know about what was meant with the "shocking" comment, but since there was a smiley- laughing face at the end, maybe it wasnt meant as an insult. I don't know...

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mo_like_it Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 4:49pm
post #103 of 226

I am saying this as a fairly new member to CC, and really, to on-line community forums in general....This is a PUBLIC forum, and what we post on here will always be subject to interpretation by those who are reading it. Why post if you don't want someone's honest opinion in response? Be confident in what you post, expect all kinds of reactions, and try not to take it personally! icon_cool.gificon_smile.gificon_wink.gif

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OhMyGoodies Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 5:00pm
post #104 of 226

Ok I'm stuck on pg 3 and I'm not going to go any further until I say this... I've known AllCakedOut OFF CC for about a year and a half now. She's a great person who has done nothing but help me repeatedly with my "business". She's helped me plan out things, she's even bought me and shipped to me a few different sets of cake dummies to good images and stuff for my website and portfolio. She's helped me with info on how to take great pictures, she's helped me with decorating problems, she's helped me with idea problems with the idea well has run dry....

She's bent over backwards for me and gone way above and beyond what a normal friend would've done.

I can understand her point of view on this as well as some other's points of view. She is tired of getting emails from people thinking they can just set up shop tomorrow out of their living room and not have to worry about the red tape involved in their location. She's tired of everyone thinking it's so freaking easy that you just throw a cake in the oven and it comes out decorated. (basically how some people think that it's just that easy)

I'm currently losing much needed business to someone I personally know... She's the sister of my best friend and she's a nurse. She has made one 3 tier cake for her daughter in law's baby shower which tasted like shit (literally everyone said so including herself) but it looked great! She made another one for her friends wedding shower, tasted like shit but looked great! Now my god daughter is expecting in August and they are having her shower in a few weeks and I offered my services for a custom made Ducky cake to match the theme. I was informed that she is doing the cake for free for her. I couldn't help but laugh at and the same time be pissed off. This lady just commented that she'd never make another cake again after making her friends 5 tier wedding cake and having the entire thing collapse on the way to the reception and how envious she is of the wedding cake I did for her neice/my god daughter a few months ago and that she'd never do another one because it's too complicated and harder then she thought it would be.... now she's taking more business from me because she thinks it's all easy and as long as it's free no one will care how it tastes.... well bad news sister if it tastes like shit it doesn't matter how it looks...

Basically what the OP is trying to vent about is the people who think shit up in their sleep, wake up a natural born decorator and think they can make it happen and be rich over night because they had a dream they can do it or they made one cake that turned out good or that everyone liked.... basically I think everyone needs to stop being so touchy and get a little tougher shell and stop attacking the OP and really read what she's trying to say and not getting your asses up on your backs about shit. She didn't come here to offend anyone she came to vent about an issue she's facing almost daily about starting a cake business with absolutely no experience.... not saying you need to go to college and shit to do cakes but at least get started and see what you've got in you before taking that leap and trying to start up a business when you aren't willing to go the extra mile and be legit.

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sarahnichole975 Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 5:02pm
post #105 of 226

Allcakedout....

I am hurt for you! I apologize if my previous post came across as attacking you. All I was saying (in a completely diplomatic way though the computer never seems to convey that) is that I can see both sides of this. I can understand why it must be frustrating to have people constantly wanting free training. I can understand, because if (even though I'm a homebaker)if someone wanted to be here working under me who had no real knack for it or was totally nieve to what really went into decorating, they would completely slow me down and be in the way...thus costing me $$$. My time is precious. As is everyone else here. I was just asking for you to understand why your post could be considered offensive, though I truely believe that was NOT your intent. I was defending you AND those who have started with dreams in their eyes because WOW that cake making sure looks fun. I was making the point that the trend is for a surge of interest everytime the media glamorizes anything. I wish to apologize for my implication that you are unwiling to help. That was wrong, or rather worded wrongly. What I was trying to convey is that not wanting to help every joe blow who thinks they can slap icing on a cake is understandable. Me however, because I'm busier than I really want to be (because I'm unable to do this other than in my home at the time) I am always willing to help out. I've taught (and learned with) a great friend who never thought about doing cakes before meeting me, I've given tips, recipes, and secrets to clients who thought they'd give a cake a try since I was unavailable. Telling them each time "hey, I don't care. I know I'm in no jeopardy of you being competition to me anytime in the near future." It is just my nature to be like that. Though I'm sure when I finally get my dream shop (AND I WILL HAVE IT ONE DAY), constant propositions like you have dealt with would be annoying. I am dumbfounded by the story of the girl who would stand beside you and critique your hard work. That is exceptionally rude. Kudos to you for all the work and time you are contributing to your community.

All that being said, I think you just really should stop and think about how some could find your post to be hurtful. I am able to see how mine could be to you. And am willing to apologize as my intent really wasn't to attack you.

A story...my mother recently was completely rude and insulting to my step mother. She had no intention of doing so, and didn't realize how hurtful she had been. We discussed it, and though she felt her point was valid (and it was) she accepted that it could have been presented better. As a Christian, she believes that she has to apologize for hurting someone, even though the intent to hurt wasn't there. When my kids are rough housing and one clocks the other upside the head, I still explain that though it wasn't intentional, it's good to stop and evaluate why it did hurt and to apologize accordingly.

Geeze people, if everyone could just stop and take time to realize how what they've said or done could have been hurtful and then just try to make it right. You won't always be able to, and there are those that no matter what you try to do to make it right and explain it was not your intention they just won't see it. But if you've at least tried, you've validated your whole point even more.

Again, I'M SORRY for any hurtful words I may have conveyed.

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FromScratch Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 5:13pm
post #106 of 226

This may be a public forum, but when you sign up you agree to play nice and not just blatantly call someone out. Opimions.. we are all entitled to have them and I have no problem hearing them. Personal attacks are a completely different monster.

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Reedsmomma Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 5:14pm
post #107 of 226

Look, you got angry at the woman at the wedding who looked at a cake you had decorated and said "I could do that". She was just saying what she thought. Is that not the same thing that has happened here? You gave an opinion and offended people. If you have a rant, be ready for the people who agree as well as the ones who don't.

And as for my prevous post, how can it be an insult if I am simply agreeing with a statement that you made about yourself? icon_confused.gif

All i know about this webste is that it is choc full of people who are ready and willing to help anyone who needs it. I'm sorry to say that I don't think you have the same attitude?

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tonedna Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 5:24pm
post #108 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkalman

Jes*s.. where was it ever written that someone couldn't come and vent about something without everyone getting offended. Take the personal out of it. The poor thing just wanted to vent.. and now she has to explain herself to to everyone because they feel insulted. icon_rolleyes.gif

Never was it said in literal terms that she thinks no one should try.. just don't expect the world to carry you. Do your own grunt work. And no.. grunt work isn't calling or e-mailing a baker and asking a list of everything you need to do to get going. Grunt work is coming here and asking or calling your state department to find out what is involved in getting licensed.

The point is.. can't people ever just take a vent for what it is?? Without acting like they were raked over the coals because the complaint *remotely* could have maybe sort-of in a way but not really resemble them? icon_confused.gif





Amen!!...Everybody has a bad day!...

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southerncake Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 5:26pm
post #109 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reedsmomma

Look, you got angry at the woman at the wedding who looked at a cake you had decorated and said "I could do that". She was just saying what she thought. Is that not the same thing that has happened here? You gave an opinion and offended people. If you have a rant, be ready for the people who agree as well as the ones who don't.




The difference is this is a "forum!!!!!!!" Webster's definition of forum is "a public meeting place for open discussion." The original post was completely appropriate. AllCakedOut needed to vent -- and understandably so.

The lady at the event was just being plain rude and inappropriate.

I often rant to my mom about anything and everything (as she does with me also) and she will start trying to say, but look at it this way or that way or think about this and I have to stop her and say, "I'm just venting." Once she is reminded, she will listen for as long as I need her to -- I think that is what the OP needed also!

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sarahnichole975 Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 5:33pm
post #110 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike1394

\\

I was going to do a day care once. I would've EXCEPT for all those D*** kids running around. hehehehehe

Mike




I worked in daycare for YEARS...about the time of my beginnings of cake decorating. My family was always talking about how they should open me up a place of my own..... tapedshut.gif (a list of obscenities just came flying out of my brain) I'll pass. After seeing the heck my boss, who I loved, went through. No chance in h e double hockey sticks I want to open a daycare. Before working there....sounded like a reasonable idea. I do agree that lots of people just jump with out really realizing what they're getting into. It works for some, some go screaming into the night!!!!

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Petit-four Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 5:41pm
post #111 of 226

Hmmm...I think tonedna and southerncake are right. We had a venting situation here. detective.gif

And that's ok. Better to vent here then get high blood pressure or something.

(And to clarify, I'm NOT a neurosurgeon...I just have a weird sense of humor.) icon_twisted.gif

I guess maybe the thing to do is:

1) listen to the OP's vent, helping her lower her bp.
2) Share ideas on ways to deal with the stress of gawkers/nebbishes/nasties/nabobs and the like.

thumbs_up.gif

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sarahnichole975 Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 5:42pm
post #112 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reedsmomma

Look, you got angry at the woman at the wedding who looked at a cake you had decorated and said "I could do that". She was just saying what she thought.




No that's just tacky and rude. I personally would have shown my very ugly side to this witch with a capital "b". Completely uncalled for! I just really think people don't stop to think these days about courtesy.

Can I also input here that I think a lot less people would get offended if we read posts with a sarcastic silly voice in our heads rather than a mean snobby voice? I constantly try to teach my kids that they should always think the best of people, not the worst.

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mo_like_it Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 5:52pm
post #113 of 226

If we all post responsibly, we shouldn't have to worry about personal attacks! Come on CCers! Let's just keep it positive! thumbs_up.gif

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Karema Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 5:52pm
post #114 of 226

Hey look at the bright side your post got a lot of hits and its getttin hot in here. lol. I bake and decorate but I never call my self a baker or chef. Just b/c havent earned those stripes yet. I've been told I'm good and my cakes taste great but I know its a lot of hard work owning a shop. For now I do my research. I print out stuff from cc and put it in a binder. I watch shows, I do researce on line, I buy books, I talk to those in the field, I read, research and experiment. My dream will come true but it will take perserverance. I recently ran into a manager of a bakery in my town and his family has been in business for 50 years. I want the experiance. He said he doesnt have it in his budget to hire anyone else. I said I dont care I will work for free. I just want a foot in the door. I also find it funny when people see my cakes and say how did you make that. I think I'm going to buy the stuff to make that. I laugh. I also hate people who do that for everything in life. Like someone at the gym takiing a workout class and then later says I think I would like to work here. Huh are you trained, experiance, anything besides it was fun to workout. People are funny.

Cake decorating is an art. Sometimes people may look at Picasso and say I could have done that. Well good luck with that.

Dont feel too bad OP we all know what you are talking about, at first when I read it, it sounded a little snooty. I was embarassed that I asked that manager can I work for free. I kind of feel stupid now and hope he is not offended. I just love it and if he cant pay me I dont care I just want to do it. Your words were sharp but that is your opinion. It is frustrating even to me and I dont have a shop when people come to me and say you did a great job I think I could do that. Now I'm interested in how you got started. I would love to know. I love hearing everyones story.

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Reedsmomma Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 5:56pm
post #115 of 226

Okay, since I stuck my big nose in and complained about offending people and being prepared for their comments... icon_redface.gif

I have obviously offended others. I am fairly new to this site and haven't run across a vent/rant that had so many people up in arms. The OP did offend me, because I am one of those "housewives" who think "maybe someday..." It struck a chord and I retailiated with my comment and for that, AllCaked Out and any others I have offended, I apologize.

I have learned so much here and everyone has been great with sharing ideas, recipes, help on how to do things, etc., etc., etc. Another thing that I love about this site - we can be honest with each other when we get out of line.... icon_redface.gif

I appreciate honesty from others, as it is always what others will recieve from me.

I hope this made sense - Sorry, guys!

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Texas_Rose Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 6:12pm
post #116 of 226

I think maybe AllCakedOut didn't realize how much hostility there's been here in the past between bakery owners and homebakers. It's a hot topic here and it always seems to end painfully for at least one of the posters involved. But I can honestly see someone coming to the forum, thinking, "Oh wow, here's a chance to vent to a bunch of business owners like myself," and not realizing she was stepping in it icon_biggrin.gif

There's a difference between anyone who's here learning and someone who's never even held a spatula who walks up and says, "Oh, I can do that." Or "That looks so easy, can you teach my kid how to do it?" or any of the other comments people get. Some people are just thoughtless. They don't get the time it takes to learn and practice. My personal favorite is when I take a cake to a relative and they say, "Wow, I think you might be good enough to work in the bakery at the grocery store."

Anyhow, ladies (and gentleman icon_biggrin.gif) why don't we just put this topic to rest...agree to disagree or to realize that we may be disagreeing on something totally different than we think we are...

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michellenj Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 6:12pm
post #117 of 226

Allcakedout-

How do you feel after your 1st CC public flogging? icon_biggrin.gif

I know you meant no offense when you posted your original post. It must have just hit some people wrong. Sometimes when you type something out, it sounds a lot harsher than when you say it, even though you might be saying the exact same thing.

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moxey2000 Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 6:12pm
post #118 of 226

Mike1394 and sarahnichole975...

I used to think a home daycare would be soooo easy icon_cool.gif ... then I worked in one for all of 2 months and it almost killed me icon_cry.giftapedshut.gificon_cry.gif !!! In the process I garnered a whole new appreciation for people who can work with children thumbs_up.gif and especially for those who make a career of it thumbs_up.gif ! They are saints icon_lol.gif !

This all occurred some 25+ years ago and I've never forgotten the lesson - things aren't always as they seem.

I know this is a little off-topic, but I just had to share thumbs_up.gif .

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imartsy Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 6:12pm
post #119 of 226

Alright I don't normally do this -but I haven't read through the whole forum.

I do have some small bit of business experience and I know that owning your own business is a TON of work. That's why I wish I could get a job working for someone like Ace of Cakes. I've tried. I think I'm talented enough to at least do some basics at a real cake shop (i.e. not the grocery store) - but I couldn't find a cake job. Plus, trying to get a cake job with a 401K and benefits.... well now that's just impossible.

I'd love to work with Duff though - I'm sure competition is fierce for trying to work with him.... especially if he just hires his friends or friends of friends....... but heck I'd mop the floor in that place just for the chance to watch and learn. I'd still need to make a living wage though.....and convince my husband to move to Baltimore.....

This is why I don't have my own cake business. I know that there are boring days, stressful days, inventory, taxes, etc. etc. So while I love cakes and love to do it for friends and family, I know that I probably won't have a business any time soon.

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all4cake Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 6:17pm
post #120 of 226

Anyone wanna go shopping????

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