Was It Always Like This?

Business By AllCakedOut Updated 11 Jul 2008 , 3:53pm by loriana

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DoubleA Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 8:25pm
post #151 of 226

I have read most of the 10 pages of postings and I understand both sides. I am a microbiologist by trade and decorate cakes as a part time business. I've been decorating since I was about 10 years old, but put it down for a long time while I tried to be "professional" in health care. I have decided that I love caking so much that one of these days, I maybe will be able to open a little cake shop. But in the mean time, I still have 4 kids to educate and bills to pay, etc., so I continue to hone my skills and practice getting better and better.

I love CC for all of the people here that are as passionate about their craft as I am about mine!

Thank you all for allowing someone such as myself (self taught cook) to sit and learn at the feet of such masters as the ones whose cakes I see depicted in the galleries every day! You guys are an inspiration to me when it is midnight and I have been on my feet for 16 hours and am still trying to get that stupid gumpaste flower to act right icon_smile.gif

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chutzpah Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 8:25pm
post #152 of 226

well, veronica, dogs aren't gross, but little kids are......

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jeking Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 8:35pm
post #153 of 226

It's because everyone has gotten so lazy that they don't want to have a JOB. They think that cake decorating looks like FUN and couldn't possibly be a JOB.

If they only knew...

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veronica720 Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 8:45pm
post #154 of 226

oh I know kids are gross. I have two of my own and a neice I am around everyday. Believe me they can be down right disgusting sometimes

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FromScratch Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 8:47pm
post #155 of 226

All I have to say is that if you can let a thread on a cake forum ruin your day.. there are other issues at play.

It was a vent in the BUSINESS forum from a frustrated shop owner. Come on people. Get over yourselves and move on. And no.. I don't find this insulting.. just a reality check. In the grand scheme of things if you can let someone's general opinion get to you that bad that you would leave the site.. you need a bigger back bone. I don't see how you can sit there and know this had nothing at all to do with you on a personal level.

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mindywith3boys Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 8:50pm
post #156 of 226

wow...

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mo_like_it Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 8:51pm
post #157 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by mindywith3boys

I did not personally attack her. I simply stated that I was hurt by what she said. And Yes, I feel that if you hurt someone, then you should apologize, even if it's just to say "I'm sorry that you took it wrong." But, I guess that is just me.

I want to thank all of you wonderful women for have given me so much support and help. I will be leaving the board for a while. I really have had my feeling hurt by this. They are my feeling and I am entitled to feel them. I am even hurt by the last poster saying that I didn't have any reason to feel this way... Maybe my skin is just too thin. I don't have a lot of experience dealing with other people. I'm pretty much a home body. Maybe that's what my problem is. icon_sad.gif

I have really enjoyed getting to know you all.
~Mindy




I don't know if you will see this comment, if you have truely logged off for a while, but you shouldn't let a couple of people keep you from enjoying this board! You should be proud that you stood up for something you feel passionately about!

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loriemoms Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 8:52pm
post #158 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathysCC

Quote:
Originally Posted by loriemoms


hahaha! Don't forget us old ladies, who don't have anymore hormones left. (which I kind of like!)



icon_lol.gificon_lol.gif I didn't forget about you because I am well on my way there myself. (Is it getting hotter in here?) icon_lol.gificon_lol.gif You are the hormonally handicapped!! icon_lol.gif




LOL! My poor DH comes home sometimes in the dead of winter. I have the heat off, the house is at 60 degrees, and I am wearing shorts and a tank top. He has to put on two sweaters. I tell him "I am rolling out fondant, which makes me HOT!" He has learned. hahaha.

We learned in the summer...he use to come home and I had the AC down to 65 (again all I am doing is rolling out fondant! hahaha). He said he can't see himself wearing a sweater in July. So we put a room air conditioner in the bakery room and it is always nice and cold in there!!! There are some nights I want to sleep in there!

But again, its just because I am rolling out fondant and you know how rolling out fondant makes you hot. Right? icon_wink.gificon_wink.gif

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Doug Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 8:54pm
post #159 of 226

can I come work for free?: NO, my insurance won't cover you. I have to hire you and you have to work the hours I set and do what I say, the way I say, when I say or you're fired and right now, I'm NOT hiring.

can you teach me to....?: Sure, my fee for lessons is $XXX/hour (check the going rate on music & dance lessons and double, if not triple it at least or just match your attorney's or accountants hourly rate which ever is higher)

can you help me with how to start a business? Sure, my consulting fee is .......(see above and DOUBLE or triple THAT figure!)

---

why complain?

make money!

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loriemoms Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 8:54pm
post #160 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by mo_like_it

Quote:
Originally Posted by mindywith3boys

I did not personally attack her. I simply stated that I was hurt by what she said. And Yes, I feel that if you hurt someone, then you should apologize, even if it's just to say "I'm sorry that you took it wrong." But, I guess that is just me.

I want to thank all of you wonderful women for have given me so much support and help. I will be leaving the board for a while. I really have had my feeling hurt by this. They are my feeling and I am entitled to feel them. I am even hurt by the last poster saying that I didn't have any reason to feel this way... Maybe my skin is just too thin. I don't have a lot of experience dealing with other people. I'm pretty much a home body. Maybe that's what my problem is. icon_sad.gif

I have really enjoyed getting to know you all.
~Mindy



I don't know if you will see this comment, if you have truely logged off for a while, but you shouldn't let a couple of people keep you from enjoying this board! You should be proud that you stood up for something you feel passionately about!




I agree..there are PLENTY of other threads you can enjoy...there is to much to learn here to stay away!

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FromScratch Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 8:55pm
post #161 of 226

No need to wow.. If you don't like this particular thread don't read it.. and I am not being flippant at all. Why let something as trivial as this get to you? It just seems silly to me.

If reading this thread causes you that much strife.. don't read it. It's your choice.

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veronica720 Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 8:56pm
post #162 of 226

Well put jkalman......

Everything in the OP could have offended me as it did others. I took Wilton classes, I am a housewife, and I want to open my own business as well, but I choose to not be offended because I know it was not meant that way. And why would I want to let someone I don't know and have never spoken to ruin my day and keep me from learning more from this site.

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loriemoms Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 9:01pm
post #163 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug

can I come work for free?: NO, my insurance won't cover you. I have to hire you and you have to work the hours I set and do what I say, the way I say, when I say or you're fired and right now, I'm NOT hiring.

can you teach me to....?: Sure, my fee for lessons is $XXX/hour (check the going rate on music & dance lessons and double, if not triple it at least or just match your attorney's or accountants hourly rate which ever is higher)

can you help me with how to start a business? Sure, my consulting fee is .......(see above and DOUBLE or triple THAT figure!)

---

why complain?

make money!




I like the way you think!!

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FromScratch Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 9:05pm
post #164 of 226

I like that thought too Doug..

And Loriemoms.. That SNL skit is probably my favorite of all times.. your sig line.

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KeltoKel Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 9:06pm
post #165 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by southerncake

Quote:
Originally Posted by loriemoms

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeltoKel

If someone came to me with the same question, I would tell them to take some courses and bake many cakes before they think about a business.



I can understand where you are coming from...and when I receive emails that state "I want to start my own business, do you know where I can go to get information?" I send them the info and web sites, and even some inspection hints. (A few people even on this site can attest to that!) I even had a competitor I met at a bridal show come over one day and I gave her a tour of my bakery. I don't mind helping another fellow hard working SERIOUS baker!

But I dont think that is what we are talking about..at least not me. I am talking about these people who email you, who watch Ace of Cakes or challenges and say "Hey, I can do that" and think they can just come over and watch you and then open their buisness. Its insulting. I worked hard to learn to do what I do, and I am still learning (that is part of the fun) They have this additude that anyone can do it! I like to see how they feel about the business while they are enjoying a nice Saturday afternoon by the pool while I am out deliverying cakes all day?



As usual, well put Lorie!!!!




I do understand what you are saying, but I would say the same to anyone wanting to pursue the field of cake decorating. Like someone else said, they will find out on their own how time consuming and challenging it really can be! So I stand by my advice - take classes and practice. Try to do what Duff does, then they will really know if it is something they can pursue for a living.

But I also wouldn't be offended if someone thought I was good enough to learn from and asked me how to start a business. I am sure the OP has talent and that is why this person asked her about going into business. I would really like to see the OP's cakes!

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Doug Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 9:12pm
post #166 of 226

my point of view comes from seeing so many greats teach along side their normal business.

think of how many of us want to take or have been so fortunate as to have taken lessons w/ Braun, Ben-Israel, Peters, Vincent, Weber, Woolley, etc.

they don't seem to mind making money both ways...

doing and teaching.

Yo, Duff and Mike -- HINT -- time to start teaching!

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Janette Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 10:03pm
post #167 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by chutzpah

well, veronica, dogs aren't gross, but little kids are......





Ohhhhhhhh, I even know not to go there (as I try to balance in the rocking boat).

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Janette Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 10:06pm
post #168 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeking

It's because everyone has gotten so lazy that they don't want to have a JOB. They think that cake decorating looks like FUN and couldn't possibly be a JOB.

If they only knew...




Jeking,

Please, tell your Daughter "Thank You"

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ANicole Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 11:27pm
post #169 of 226

"And don't forget the pregnant ones who go through all of the above through the course of one day(you really have to watch out for them)"

OK, I went from being miffed to mad to practically laughing out loud. This has really gone too far! I apologize for my part in it. Blame those d*mn hormones, right! By the way, I love you Chutzpah! icon_wink.gificon_twisted.gif

In the end, it doesn't matter what one person or a few people even think about you. It matters how you see yourself. And I am a (insert shriek here) HOUSEWIFE!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHH (educated at that! - What a concept!) who loves to bake and decorate and I am having fun and that's all that matters. No one is going to stop me. I hope no one stops you either Mindy!

OP - can we be friends? Truly - can we call a truce?!

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BakingGirl Posted 1 Jul 2008 , 11:31pm
post #170 of 226

I, like mom2leelee who posted earlier in the thread, has an interior and furniture design degree. I worked for many years in firms designing hotel interiors and later rich people's homes. It was also during the height of the craze for home decorating shows. If I had a penny for every time someone would tell me how much they would love my job and how they easily could do what I did, I would be a rich woman.

Most of the time I would just let it go but occasionally I had fix them with my death stare and educate them on the "fun" part of my job, such as trying to explain to customers that their container of custom made furniture from Italy had gotten lost at sea, rare but it does happen. Or try and appease the customer who's designer toilet (!) arrived broken in a thousand pieces three times in a row because the manufacturer did not comprehend that you would have to pack it better than throwing it in a cardboard box when sending it overseas. Or the fact that I could spend an entire day writing up documents specifying which way the door handles were to turned in an entire hotel. Or deal with clearing things through customs, or placing pages and pages of orders from catalogues in languages that I don't speak.

But these damned TV shows makes interior design seem like it is a profession where people are wafting around touching fabric samples then having everything magically appear in the room without having to deal with anybody else.

Having said of all of that, it is not really people's fault for thinking that design or cake decorating is all glamour, fun and easy - it is the TV shows which do not show the other rather boring and unglamorous side of the story.

Now that I am a (shock horror) a housewife and a full time mum I do cakes. It is great creative outlet and a good combination of my interest in design and food. But I find the comments very much similar to what people said when I did interior design. "Oh, it looks like so much fun, I might do it too", or the inevitable comments on how expensive a cake is because let's face "how hard can it be?".

In the end of the day people are always going to make stupid comments until they try for themselves and realize that making cakes is not only fun, but it is a lot of work much of which is mundane and boring, and to get any good at decorating it takes a lot of practice too. I personally only do cakes as gifts for people so far. I have people asking me when I am going to start a business so that they can order from me, but to be honest I am hesitating because I do know that once it is a business you have all the business aspect of it as well as the hard work of actually creating a cake.

Sorry, very long winded but my point is that I can see where OP is coming from. Sorry you got blazed by people with hurt feelings.

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dragonflydreams Posted 2 Jul 2008 , 2:16am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkalman

I like that thought too Doug..

And Loriemoms.. That SNL skit is probably my favorite of all times.. your sig line.





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icon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif

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FromScratch Posted 2 Jul 2008 , 2:19am
post #172 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonflydreams

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkalman

I like that thought too Doug..

And Loriemoms.. That SNL skit is probably my favorite of all times.. your sig line.




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icon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif




Sweet!!!!! Everytime I see it I crack up. Thanks for the laugh!! icon_smile.gif

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Janette Posted 2 Jul 2008 , 2:33am
post #173 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonflydreams

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkalman

I like that thought too Doug..

And Loriemoms.. That SNL skit is probably my favorite of all times.. your sig line.




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icon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif




Off the path but a true story:

My Mother's Friend and her Teen-age Daughter was going to a Cowsils (sp) concert. A family singing group, big in the 60's.

My Mother asked her why in the h*** would she want to go see cows being sold. She wasn't much into music.

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indydebi Posted 2 Jul 2008 , 4:12am
post #174 of 226

After putting in a 13 hour day, I just read all 12 pages of this thread. Iâm pretty sure I understand what the OP was trying to say and itâs just one of those things that canât be done as well in a written format.

I think (and hope) many on here have the opinion that I am helpful when I can be, that Iâm willing to share anything and everything with those who are serious about becoming a biz (how many copies of my biz plan have I sent out? Iâve lost count but I know itâs over 40!). I believe in karma and I believe we all need to share our experiences to help those coming behind us get a leg up as THEY begin to start their biz.

Yet with all of that, I also encounter those folks that make me just throw up my hands and go âWHAT THE HE**????? Do you know ANYTHING about this industry??? Do you have any idea whatâs involved in a BUSINESS????â For all the helping and the sharing I do, yes, I ALSO reach a frustration level with those (repeat â¦.. with THOSE!!!! Not with CCâers who are here to learn and share and learn, so donât everybody get all defensive again) who have no idea what itâs all about.

And there is a difference between those who âhave no idea what itâs all aboutâ â¦â¦. and those who have no idea and they KNOW they have no idea â¦. so thatâs why theyâre asking. The 2nd person I will bend over backwards to help ⦠the 1st person is the one who causes us frustration.

And none of us, including the OP, believes the 1st person in my example above hasnât any ârightâ to start a business. She didnâtâ say that. Itâs just frustrating. Thatâs all. Just plain âole regular we-all-go-thru-it frustrating.

I get it double whammy â¦. Anybody whoâs ever fixed a Thanksgiving dinner for 20 thinks they know how to cook for 200. Yet they know nothing about special equipment to keep food at food-safe temps, how to transport, what equipment they need, how much time to allocate for cooking, for PREPPING!!!!, how much food to buy, etc. etc. etc.

When I resurrected this biz, my neighbor AND my daughter both dropped out of our âpartnershipâ because they had no idea it took this much time. They thought it was the âfunâ part of cooking and setting up a pretty food table at a big party. Uh-huh. They kinda forgot about the website maintenance, the advertising, the meeting with brides, the food samples, the taxes, the paperwork, the taxes, the filing, the taxes, the buying supplies, the prepping supplies, the loading the van, unloading the van, washing 100 plates and 300 pcs of silverware â¦. You know, the WORK part!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllCakedOut

The friends and family, I don't understand either. Why is it always "You should start a business", and not "You should get a job doing this"?



Of all the comments, I couldnât let this one go by, or rather I couldnât let the RESPONSES go by. ACOâs question wasnât why do YOU want to start a business ⦠her question was âwhy do FAMILY MEMBERS always TELL OTHER PEOPLE to start a business?â So the replies that were a little defensive on why each individual CCâer wanted and/or started a biz had nothing to do with her question. She wasnât questioning the business owner or the business owner wannabe ⦠she was questioning the FAMILY MEMBERâs reason for suggesting owning a biz instead of suggesting working in the industry.

It was just venting. It was just one more of those annoying frustrations that we encounter that sends us over the edge sometime.

If this story had been about her kid that had asked one too many questions and how it just sent her over the edge, we all would have come back with understanding on how kids are, and how they just donât get it sometimes, and we would have laughed with our own over-the-edge stories of OUR kids. I doubt very much if anyone would have gotten defensive about âwell MY kids arenât like that so Iâm insulted that you brushed all kids with that kind of negative attitude!â

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mushbug9 Posted 2 Jul 2008 , 4:22am
post #175 of 226

I was determined to NOT get hooked up in this thread but I find myself coming back again and again.
I can absolutely see both sides of it. The OP came off...as it did, but ment something else.
My sister and i were in the car the other day. It was hot. I made a comment that I can't even walk from the house to the car without sweating. She says "Its because of your weight". I looked at her and said THANKS!!!! I knew what she ment but it was like word vomit, she said what came into her head. I knew she ment that I had "extra insulation" and I get hotter for that reason (and stay hot according to hubby...woo hoo). I just said THANKS as I did and her mouth dropped. SHe saw what she had said come out ENTIRELY different than what she ment. Word vomit is worse when its in print though I think. Either way, I hope ALL on here who felt offende including the original poster can see the humor in what all4cake said

SHIKAKA!!!! (bowing down to the great white bat)

Made me crack up. I will have to steal that next time I comment about going to the "real" cake store instead of Michaels....SHIKAKA!!!!!!

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littlecake Posted 2 Jul 2008 , 4:37am
post #176 of 226

I think it's sad we have to really walk on eggshells on here now, there is so much offense taken.

I've gotten careful what i say around here, if i wanna vent, i sure don't do it on the open forum anymore, i'll write my cake buds privately...the ones who "get me"....

getting your butt BBQed isn't much fun.

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roxxxy_luvs_duff Posted 2 Jul 2008 , 4:37am
post #177 of 226

SHAME on Duff for having his own show and SHAME on Duff for having a show that makes the normal everyday person want to learn how to make cake. I would hope he would never hear all the compaints about his show since he does mention CC on his website as a great place for cake decorating tips


If you dont want people bugging you for info then dont reply. Its as simple as that!

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mjnj Posted 2 Jul 2008 , 4:59am
post #178 of 226

I didn't take the time to read all of these--there are a lot--but I want to add my two cents anyway. I went to culinary school and have worked as a pastry chef for the last 8 years. Unpaid internships are standard in the restaurant industry, but maybe not for cake decorators. I too have had people approaching me about this kind of thing lately. "I want to go to culinary school so I can be a master decorator like the ones on TV." Here's the thing--you do maybe one or two days of decorating at most culinary schools so really, that's not the place to start. I always tell people about the specialized courses at places like Caljava or Wilton or even Colette Peters' classes. In the end it would probably be cheaper. But really what people don't realize is how much PRACTICE it takes to be a really good decorator. Like I say, I have been baking a long time but still feel I have a lot to learn. OP, I totally get what you are saying and agree. It's a lot more than people realize.

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Texas_Rose Posted 2 Jul 2008 , 5:29am
post #179 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by loriemoms


I have a question for you: Have you ever written to your mechanic and asked him to teach you to change the oil of your car, so you can do it yourself? (and not pay him for his time or his materials) How about your local Air conditioner company or TV repair guy..Have you ever asked them to show you how to repair your appliances? (again, not pay them for thier time) They know you aren't thinking of going into business, that you just "want to learn" . They would turn you down too.




That's not really true, though, of other industries. I've learned lots of things from repairmen...I can install a toilet, even weld the o-ring back on if it's broken. I can replace anything inside the toilet tank that breaks. I can fix the garbage disposal when it's stuck (not with a broom handle either). I can put a timer in a washing machine or a dishwasher. I can change out a bad electrical outlet or a light switch. I know what to do with the AC when it freezes up or starts spilling water on the floor. I can replace the thermostat in a walk-in cooler. I can reprogram gas station cash registers when they go down (the older ones anyhow, it's been a few years). And it was all from watching people make repairs and asking them a few questions. Maybe it's because they don't think a woman would ever become competition for them, but repairmen LOVE to talk about their work. I've never had one say he was too busy to explain something...of course, I'm not saying, "Teach me this so I can make money doing it too." I'm saying, "Oh, that's so amazing! I can't believe you fixed it so fast? How did you ever learn to do it?"

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kimmypooh79 Posted 2 Jul 2008 , 6:08am
post #180 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllCakedOut

Quote:
Originally Posted by mo_like_it

This really is a pessimistic view! Plenty of people have successful businesses without formal business training.



That's why I also said "or are at least naturally gifted with a business mind". It seems too many people are all caught up in what they see on tv (not much of the business end of things), and totally don't get that it is a *business*




Despite your also stating "naturally gifted" you are still saying that you have to have a mind for business in order to start a business. Some doctors have a fancy degree and are not fit to take my blood pressure so a degree doesn't necessarily mean anything. I don't think you have to have a degree or be "naturally gifted" to start a business, cake or not. You just have to have the determination and a willingness to learn what it takes to succeed . People that can afford it hire other people to take care of that part. Maybe those people asking you all these "annoying" questions don't know where to start. Maybe you should be a nicer person and point them in the right direction instead of insulting them in a forum where they can't defend themselves. It's disheartening to read the things that you wrote. I decorate cakes because I think it is fun. I stress a little during but am happy when I finish and have a piece of edible art sitting in front of me to show for it. I have a passion for it right now and can't wait to start a new cake. I am curious if you started doing it b/c it was fun and you had a passion for it or b/c it was "THE THING" at the time.
It sounds like you have lost your passion for it and maybe cake decorating isn't "THE THING" for you. icon_confused.gif

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