I'm Concerned About A Recipe I'm Using From Cc

Decorating By mom42ws Updated 13 Jun 2008 , 7:53pm by itsacake

mom42ws Posted 7 Jun 2008 , 9:31am
post #1 of 25

I made a chocolate mousse recipe from here on CC. I've never made one before and I'm wondering about the egg in it. The egg isn't really cooked and I thought raw egg could make people sick. When I began looking online there are, of course, other recipes for mousse that use raw egg. How do I know if I did it properly and can safely serve it?

Thanks,

Ashley

24 replies
mom42ws Posted 7 Jun 2008 , 9:43am
post #2 of 25

If anyone has any ideas on this, please let me know. I need to go ahead and move forward with filling my cake but want to get some opinions/input on this first. icon_smile.gificon_smile.gificon_smile.gif

mom42ws Posted 7 Jun 2008 , 9:48am
post #3 of 25

i feel like the teacher from ferris bueller's day off: anyone, anyone, ferris, ferris

icon_smile.gif)

i guess i can always just do the heavy whip and nutella and scrap the one with the egg.

grama_j Posted 7 Jun 2008 , 10:07am
post #4 of 25

I'm thinking if they are all calling for egg, there must be SOMETHING that is keeping them from spewing salmonella..... right ? How about just using a whipped chocolate ganache ? I LOVE that stuff !

mom42ws Posted 7 Jun 2008 , 10:11am
post #5 of 25

yeah, that's what i did. except i used nutella. both of them taste great but i'm just not sure about how the one with egg in it works. hopefully someone can explain it to me for future reference.

thanks!

ashley

miss_sweetstory Posted 7 Jun 2008 , 10:17am
post #6 of 25

"Bueller...Bueller!"

Ok, traditional mousse recipes do use raw egg...and there is a certain amount of risk for salmonella (about one in every 20,000 eggs according to the American Egg Board), whenever raw egg is consumed. Although anyone can get salmonella poisoning, the most seriously effected tend to be pregnant women, children and the elderly.

If you choose to make the mousse the only thing that you can really do is ensure good product that you use fresh, pasteurized eggs. The pasteurization process will have killed most bacteria (but no guarantees).

That said, I eat mousse and raw cookie dough, yet I never serve it to anyone else (nor will I make anything for others that contain raw egg.)

Ann

Homemade-Goodies Posted 7 Jun 2008 , 10:36am
post #7 of 25

I guess that is why I prefer 7 minute frosting and Swiss Meringue bc to the Italian Meringue bc....there's just that 'what if happened' factor niggling in the back of my head. I want my eggs cooked, and before that I've started using the pasteurized egg whites as an added caution.

Now, if someone requests a specific recipe including that, maybe I'd change my mind, but if up to me, nah....it ain't worth it!

DoniB Posted 7 Jun 2008 , 10:51am
post #8 of 25

It seems like someone awhile back explained the use of milk and eggs in frostings and stuff... something about the amount of sugar creating a chemical reaction that caused the stuff to be shelf-stable. I'll have to see if I can find that, at some point. (not today... got too much to do today!) But it's out there somewhere, if someone wants to do a search for it.

mom42ws Posted 7 Jun 2008 , 11:08am
post #9 of 25

yeah, i don't know. i just don't feel comfortable with it.

ashley

mom42ws Posted 7 Jun 2008 , 11:22am
post #10 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by miss_sweetstory

"Bueller...Bueller!"




Oh yeah! It's "Bueller..." not Ferris! I guess that's what happens when you wake at 4 a.m. and your brain is not working icon_wink.gif

Ashley

Mike1394 Posted 7 Jun 2008 , 1:26pm
post #11 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade-Goodies

I guess that is why I prefer 7 minute frosting and Swiss Meringue bc to the Italian Meringue bc....there's just that 'what if happened' factor niggling in the back of my head. I want my eggs cooked, and before that I've started using the pasteurized egg whites as an added caution.

Now, if someone requests a specific recipe including that, maybe I'd change my mind, but if up to me, nah....it ain't worth it!




I think It would be safer w/ IMBC rather than SMBC. The sugar in I is cooked to 240. The sugar in S is only cooked to 120. Pasteurization doesn't happen at either point since it's an indirect w/ I. The safer bet is to use pastuerized egg whites.

Mike

Homemade-Goodies Posted 7 Jun 2008 , 2:48pm
post #12 of 25

Mike, does boiling the sugar and pouring into the meringued egg whites in I, better than boiling the egg whites with the sugar, as in S? That is what I was meaning. ..and yeah, I've started using the pasteurized egg whites. I like that reassurance...and not wasting all those yolks anymore. :-S

all4cake Posted 7 Jun 2008 , 3:08pm
post #13 of 25

I know recipes for SMBC direct a person to cook it to a certain temperature below 160...

but...


uh...


I cook the egg white/sugar mixture to 168-170. Maybe I'm lucky with the results...smooth...creamy...tasty...just as if I had cooked it at a lower temperature with the added benefit of reducing my worry over the egg.

There is a wonderful cream cheese mousse recipe on cdkitchen that can be made into chocolate just by adding the chocolate to the cream cheese when melting.

Narie Posted 7 Jun 2008 , 3:10pm
post #14 of 25
Quote:
Quote:

The inside of an egg was once considered almost sterile. But, over recent years, the bacterium Salmonella enteritidis (Se) has been found inside a small number of eggs. Scientists estimate that, on average across the U.S., only 1 of every 20,000 eggs might contain the bacteria. So, the likelihood that an egg might contain Se is extremely small â 0.005% (five one-thousandths of one percent). At this rate, if youâre an average consumer, you might encounter a contaminated egg once every 84 years.




I grew up eating dippings eggs and eating other things containing raw eggs. It has only been in recent years that the possibility of Samonella in raw eggs with uncracked shells has been discovered. I haven't changed my eating habits or my recipes. In other words, I would eat a mousse with raw egg in it; however, I would not sell anything with raw egg. Use pasturized eggs for commercial purposes. For home use I wouldn't bother.

Mike1394 Posted 7 Jun 2008 , 6:02pm
post #15 of 25

If your cooking egg whites to 168-170 your making scrambled eggs. Whites start to congeal at 140.

Mike

Mike1394 Posted 7 Jun 2008 , 6:04pm
post #16 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade-Goodies

Mike, does boiling the sugar and pouring into the meringued egg whites in I, better than boiling the egg whites with the sugar, as in S? That is what I was meaning. ..and yeah, I've started using the pasteurized egg whites. I like that reassurance...and not wasting all those yolks anymore. :-S




I feel safer with 240 sugar, than 120 sugar. Truthfully once it strts to mix I think they cool off to fast to really have an effect.

Mike

all4cake Posted 7 Jun 2008 , 6:28pm
post #17 of 25

Like I said....maybe I'm lucky..

I cook and stir them until the thermometer is CLEARLY above 165...

Using a reliable and yes working well candy thermometer.

all4cake Posted 8 Jun 2008 , 12:34am
post #18 of 25

Tried it again. This time, I cooked it to 175(it continued to climb to 177.

I proceeded as normal.

I filled and crumb coated 3 tiers.

they're resting in the freezer at the moment.

I will upload pics of at least one finished tier for visual verification of the outcome.

Mike, I believe it may be because I blend the sugar and egg whites together well then place the bowl over cold water and heat gradually (as opposed to placing bowl over simmering water) that keeps it from coagulating/congealing and cooking as whites normally would. I'm no scientist. Just my thoughts on the matter.

Granted, this method takes a considerable amount of monitoring and care to prevent it from messing up.

BTW, I used the "1-2-3" ratio when making it. Don't know if that matters...just thought I'd share

all4cake Posted 8 Jun 2008 , 1:23am
post #19 of 25

Daggumit!

those aren't eggy pellets(I get those when I don't pay attention when making IMBC). they're holes...I left the whip attachment on and the mixer on high way the heck too long.

To the OP, I didn't mean to hi-jack your thread...there was a point.

If there is something in your recipe that has to be heated(even if there isn't...ya just gotta go a different route with your recipe) egg can be successfully heated without compromising its' integrity as far as its' purpose in the recipe goes.
LL
LL

all4cake Posted 10 Jun 2008 , 11:42pm
post #20 of 25

Okay, I made the recipe last night. I made it just like the recipe stated except for the egg/sugar portion.

I cooked them just as I do with the SMBC. I combined the eggs and sugar thoroughly....rested the heat proof bowl over a pot with about an inch or so water in it(don't fill it so full that the bottom of the bowl touches it).....turned on the heat to medium and began to stir(if you use a whisk, be careful not to whip as this will create air bubbles and mixture may not cook and reach desired temperature evenly). I cook the egg mixture, again, to 175(you may have to tilt bowl to get an accurate reading...it is a small amount).

Continue with recipe as instructed.

Although the mousse, after becoming set, was firm, I would make sure to dam the cake before filling and it needs to be refigerated to remain firm...so, no sitting out for hours.

The pictures are of alternating layers of the mousse and chocolate ganache with and without the primer layer of ganache.
LL
LL

Lindakbh Posted 12 Jun 2008 , 3:40pm
post #21 of 25

I have also cooked the sugar/egg mixture to over 160 with fine results. However, since it takes so long Iâve just started using meringue powder instead. I blend the sugar with hot water in a blender until the sugar is dissolved then I dump in the meringue powder and quickly blend until well combined. I then pour the mixture into the mixing bowl and whip until stiff and proceed as normal.

Iâm not familiar with the mousse recipes, so cannot say whether they could be adapted with this method.

aswartzw Posted 12 Jun 2008 , 5:58pm
post #22 of 25

A link I found on pasteurizing...

http://www.georgiaeggs.org/pages/pasteurization.html


To me, it seems IMBC is safe based on this information. Although SMBC doesn't sound so.

Honestly, I'd rather just use pasteurized eggs.

tenleysmommy Posted 12 Jun 2008 , 6:38pm
post #23 of 25

So if you sold cakes or cupcakes can you use IMBC or SMBC,because of the eggs I always use IMBC at home but someday I would like to open a bakery and have never thought of that??????????

shisharka Posted 12 Jun 2008 , 6:42pm
post #24 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by aswartzw

it seems IMBC is safe based on this information. Although SMBC doesn't sound so.




Iâve made IMBC once, and Iâve been making the 1-2-3 SMBC for over a year now. For me, it is exactly the opposite â in SMBC, I *know* I have âcookedâ the eggs, I usually go to about 160 degrees (and even climbing) and I constantly whip it there for a few minutes, with no âomeletteâ issues whatsoever⦠Just the workout part! With my single IMBC try, I was not at all sure if the syrup was hot enough for long enough to pasteurize the egg whitesâ¦

My favorite Tiramisu originally calls for 3 raw egg whites (which I used to replace with heavy cream, and miss out on the texture, as Iâd never eat or serve raw eggs â taste-testing cookie dough doesnât count, hehe), and one of my favorite BC's calls for 4 raw egg yolks⦠After discovering SMBC, I use the same pasteurizing technique for the Tiramisu egg whites (yummmm!!) and as for the BC, I just experimented âcookingâ the egg yolks once with a touch of heavy cream and sugar similar to pastry cream â with low heat and constant stirring, I get dense boiling-bubble foam, that Iâm sure is safe, and again, oh so tasty in the BC - never gone back! (Oh, instead, I have gotten the "omelette" here a couple of times, but practice makes perfect)⦠Bottom line: âcookâ the eggs icon_smile.gif

Back to the chocolate mouse from the OP â Iâd try the SMBC method for the egg whites, then proceed with the rest of the recipe... If it calls for powder sugar, make sure to adjust the quantity as you'll be using some granulated with the egg whites... Yeah, I know, I cannot follow a recipe if my life depended on itâ¦

itsacake Posted 13 Jun 2008 , 7:53pm
post #25 of 25

Getting into this late, but just saw it. I had this discussion a lot with various chefs in pastry school too.

In the case of IMBC, I've done this over and over and tested to see what the temperature of the meringue was when I had added the sugar syrup. Despite starting with the syrup at 250 degrees, once added to the meringue, the mixture has NEVER tested higher than 120 degrees, which is not sufficient to kill salmonella. I still make it, all the time, I just use pasteurized whites.

Whoever said the egg whites for SM can be cooked up to 160 - 170 degrees without curdling because they have been combined with sugar is correct. It works fine. We did it constantly at school.

I know there are many, many chefs out there who say raw shell eggs have always worked for them and no has ever gotten sick. That's fine and the odds are with them. BUT, there have been all sorts of salmonella outbreaks in the last few years where they had never happened in the past and people are way more apt to sue these days than in the past, so I think it makes sense to be extra careful.

Just my $0.02 and maybe not even worth that LOL icon_biggrin.gif

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