I have been a storefront bakery for about 7 years now. I also have a full supply shop, so I deal with a lot of essentially, my compentition. It doesn't bother me, there's plenty of business to go around. However, recently one of my somewhat regular customers has decided to open a bakery two blocks away from me. Again, free enterprise, blah, blah, blah, knock yourself out. My question to all CC'ers out there is, what would you do? She has been coming in asking all sorts of questions about where I buy this and that and wanting to know how I would do this or that, etc. I told her I would appreciate it if she would buy her supplies from me, boxes, boards, etc, but I didn't mean to imply that I was interested in setting up her business for her. I certainly don't want to make her mad or having her telling everyone how I treat her badly or spending those supply dollars somewhere else, but I would like to find a way to nicely tell her that I had to learn some of things the hard way and she should too! It's not like I'm going out of business and helping her start! These are very point blank face-to-face questions that are impossible to dance around! HELP! Someone with more tact than I, tell me how to deal with this!
THANKS! -Lori

I think she is being very naive to think that you would be obligated in any way to help your competition!

You really don't know what her long term goals are anyway. She might want to supplement her bakery with supplies too.

You needn't say that you don't want to help her, just politely say that you wish her the best of luck and would like her to continue to be a supply customer with you, but that you are in direct competition with each other.

If she doesn't get it, then everytime she comes in and starts getting chatty, just tell her to shop and if she needs any help with her purchase(s), to let you know. Tell her you have a big order that you need to process and do busy work like going on the computer or ducking under the counter! lol

Sometimes competition is good. That is why so many restaurants will open right next door to another one. Usually the rationale is that it will draw more people to the area. I am not sure though that the same would apply for a bakery. If she approaches you again and starts asking more questions, tell her that her business plan is not the same as yours, and that you had a professional business planner help you with what you wanted to do. It would be in her best interest to hire the services of a planner so that she stays focused on her own plan. What works for one, does not mean it will work for someone else. You have had 7 years to tweek your business, she needs to go through the growing pains , she doesn' t need to copycat your business. To keep her as a business customer I would set up some type of minimum order, she will run into this with alot of vendors anyway. You will be more convienent for her since she will now be your neighbor. I would stay on your toes though, she may try to do things like you are doing. Good Luck.

tell her that if she wants a consultation, you'd be happy to help, but u charge $1000 per 15 minute session and any tips given withing those 15 minute sessions are $500 a peice...LOL...

tell her you're busy running your own business and maybe she should look into a consultant top help her out...also...if she asks personal questions about your suppliers and stuff, i would sort of joke about it and let it go like, "oh, i could tell u, but then i'd have to kill u" hahaha...just to get her off your back, maybe she'll get the hint...

Good and funny suggestions! It's just geting harder and harder to blow her off. She told me about her plan very casually about 2 months ago and I've been stewing about it ever since. She was in yesterday while I was right in the middle of stuff and just had to speak to me (I have an employee that waits the counter and stuff). She wanted to know the best day to stop by and get some prices on boxes and things. She proceded to ask where to get equipment, do you buy stuff here..... followed by "I really like your kitchen set-up." My kitchen is somewhat visible from the front counter, the doorway is about 10 ft. behind the counter, but the door is usually open where you can see in. I guess it's flattering in a way, and maybe I'm being too petty, but she's going to be cutting into my business at first just because people like to try new things, so I don't feel the need to give her a big leg up! Everyone that has started out knows how hard it is, but that's part of what makes a business what it is. I struggled and researched and fought to get where I am, and (using whiny voice) IT'S JUST NOT FAIR!!!
Thanks for the help if anyone else has any suggestions, bring them on!
-Lori

when she asks about suppliers, jsut tell her you be happy to be her supplier, just have her prepare a list and then take YOUR costs from YOUR suppliers and add 15-20% to it. it could be a good business for you. if she doesnt' want to buy from you and persists, just tell her the Internet is a good research tool and then tell her you have to get back to work.

I think you all are a lot nicer than I would be. I would come right out and say (in the nicest tone of voice as possible)---

"I understand you are opening your own shop and I wish you the best of luck. I have worked very hard over the last 7 years to make my business a success and I cherish each and everyone of my customers, however, as much as I would like you to continue to be my customer, you must realize that you and I will be in direct competition with each other. I feel that at a point you should understand my reluctence (sp?) to answer your questions. My main suggestion is that you hire a business planner who can help you do research and develop a plan to make your business a success. I will also tell you that is is going to take time, patience, dedication, faith, and lots of hard bone tiring days to make your dream come true."

Feel free to add anything else!

I know you are in a tough spot. I think I would simply make the statement that "no two businesses operate exactly the same and it would be hard for me to answer that question. Everyone has their own business plan with goals and objectives and my opinion might alter what you are going after." I would also add that I love being your supplier and I would not want to ruin our relationship if I give some advice that doesn't work for your business.

I would not want to be rude in any way but I also would not give out the information gained from years of experience.

I'm a former business owner (soon to be one again*fingers crossed*) so I have total understanding of what you're going through.

First of all, when it comes to questions on the kitchen, I'd tell her to contact the Dept. of Health in the state for it's requirements. They most likely have changed since you set yours up and (now you can play really dumb and innocent) you can't answer her questions like they can... besides it's them she'd be answering to.

Frankly, I'd offer to continue to sell her supplies at whatever cost YOU think is fair. If she doesn't want to deal with you, I'd kindly, but in a business tone, suggest she either start an internet search or grab the yellow pages. Because (again wide-eyed innocence from you) you're just not sure of her exact needs. Recommend she attend a trade show or contact a food supplier that perhaps the school uses as a starting point. Those guys are a wealth of information.

Honestly, I can't see anyone who has done no more research than that making it in a store front. You're not in the mentoring business, there are classes at colleges she can look into. Also, many colleges offer free or very reasonable help for start up businesses.

She needs to be considerate of YOUR time and respect your business. If she keeps insisting on picking your brain, I'd insist she make an appt at your convenience, with a set number of minutes she's allowed.

Just my 2 cents.

The free enterprise system also means you don't have to help competition set up less than two blocks away from you. She should have researched this stuff before she started setting things up. Tell her you're uncomfortable with these questions because her business will be in direct competition with yours and you cannot help her..

I don't mean to go against everyone here. I completely understand where everyone is coming from. I do not own a store just yet but am working on it. I am, however, legally in business, as I rent space from another bakery. Let me also say that I know I'm in a better situation currently as my eggs are not all in one basket and I'm not having to completely worry about paying the rent on time (as regards to owning an actual shop).

Here are my thoughts:

I'm going to give this girl the benefit of the doubt and say that I think she has already researched a lot of this information but thought it would be nice to get input from a seasoned professional. I don't think she should constantly be bothering you. I think the appropriate way that she should've approached this would've been to come up to you on a less busy day and stated that she would like to pick your brain, if you would be willing. Then she should've asked if she could buy you dinner and talk to you about the business and she if you could give her any pointers.

I do apologize that she is constantly pestering you with questions. She should handle this better. I do feel that people that have the knowledge should be willing to share the knowledge. I think this is coming from more of a Christian stand point. I can understand how anyone would want to protect their business. Your business has been going for 7 years. I'm sure you have a following and people know and trust you. I don't think sharing some of your knowledge it going to hurt. I feel that whatever God's plan is, is what is going to happen. We should want to help out our neighbors.

Again, I can completely understand why you took this the way you did. As I know how busy a real commercial kitchen can be, especially with a cake shop attached. I just thought I should give my point of view just because it never hurts to take on a different outlook.

I really hope this doesn't offend anyone as that is not my intention. I just really hope this helps!

jewelykaye - I think I would have completely agreed with you a couple of years ago before I had a storefront, but now I have some mixed feelings.

I don't see anything wrong with sharing certain things like "you can visit ______ website to find trade shows" or "you have to go to the _________ trade show that is where you will gain the most information." That may be a decent way to handle her without giving up your specific information that you worked so hard to get!

At the 2006 Small Business Expo in my town, I met a woman who only did gourmet apples (I don't do gourmet apples), but we were the two "specialty food" people there that year and we struck up what I thought was somewhat of a friendship. She was not legal (I sure wouldn't have been at the expo and not been legal!!!) and asked a lot of questions about how to do that. I helped her in every way I could. I gave her phone numbers, websites, specific names of who is the most helpful, etc. I spent literally a year when I first started trying to figure out how to become legal -- lots of phone calls, internet searches -- it was awful, but I was so proud of myself when it worked out.

She then had lots of questions about my chocolates, suppliers for packaging, etc. I'm thinking she only does apples so why does it matter if she knows everything right?!?! Wrong!! At this year's expo, she was back -- her display looked almost exactly like mine. Her things were packaged like mine -- even down to the way she put together gift baskets. She now had chocolates (exactly like mine) and her daughter was making desserts (the price list could have been a straight copy of mine!)!!!!!!!

I would have been fine with her making some of the same things as me, but at least get your own style and be a little creative!

I love to share certain information with people, but some things you just do not reveal with everyone. Since then, when anyone asks about where to buy supplies, etc., I simply say in a really friendly voice -- "I buy from so many different places. Just do a quick internet search and you can find all these things." If DH is standing beside me, he always chimes in "Now, if she told you I would have to kill you!" with a laugh and smile!

I love to share the knowledge that I have learned, but some things I like to keep to myself, just as you are feeling now!

To be honest, if she has already spoken with the local small business counselor, there's every chance she's doing what they told her. When I talked to one recently, he said that at the point I'm at in my research, I need to perform 'due diligence', which is scoping out the mundane stuff... suppliers, equipment, etc, and finding a local mentor to pick the brains of.

However, he did say that 'local' shouldn't be in the same general vicinity where I plan to open shop! So while I think she's doing right to talk to someone already in the biz, she's doing wrong by trying to get the information from what will be her most direct competition.

As for sharing knowledge... it's not just a Christian thing, JewelKaye. Many of us heathens are all for sharing knowledge, but there is a line to draw, where sharing knowledge means teaching someone by NOT giving them the answers. There is the point of this person learning to deal with this stuff on her own. After all, do you (you in general, not you, Kaye!) do your kids' homework for them? I hope not. You probably could, and guarantee them straight A's, but when test time comes, they'll be up a creek without a paddle, because they didn't learn it themselves.

Say she does get Lori to come up with all this info, then suddenly (knock on wood) something happens to Lori. Now the girl has no idea where to go to get her supplies, because Lori's always done it, and Lori's no longer available to either get them or to tell her how to get them. If she does the research now, and starts building those professional relationships now, she'll be far better off in the long run. And she's serving the community by doing this, as well, because now at least one shop will still be open to meet their needs, instead of two shops going under in fairly short order, just because one person is no longer in business.

Just my two cents' worth. I have someone who's mentoring me, but she lives in another town, another county, and has enough business of her own that she doesn't feel threatened at all by someone opening up shop 45 minutes away. I would never dream of walking into one of the local bakeries, finger up my nose, and say "Hey, I wanna take some of your business away. Tell me how to do that, please!"

okay... I did ask one local (CC) baker recently, but took her silence as an 'I'm not going to share', and left it at that. but again... she was in another town, NOT two stores up.

-grin- It's all good... I didn't mean it as a chiding... sorry if it came out that way.

WOW, she must be clueless. I think it is very rude to ask for help (and for free at that!) to someone who will be a direct competiter. If she is going to ask you for help, she should ask your permission first, for example, - would you mind if I ask you some questions about your business (and offer to compensate you), or she should go to someone further away, or to someone with a different small business. I personally think that someone that clueless (or who blatantly disregards) at social etiquite will have a hard time running a successful business.

I would politely tell her that you suggest a business planner or that you offer consulting by appt. at 150 to 500 an hour (if you seriously want to privide it). Then, if she asks you for help, tell her that she will need to set up a consultation appt. Otherwise, If she asks who your supplier is, I would tell her something vague like "I use a variety of sources, all of which are available through the yellow pages or internet." If she presses you, I would say something like, "I would like to help you, but I am sure you understand that I run a cake business, and making cakes/providing supplies are my business, and I do not have the time to offer business consulting at this time."

She asked for advicewhat she didnt ask for was GOOD advice.bwahahahaha

seriously keep your friends close and your competition closer...then you'll always know what she's up to. Grit your teeth and be "that really nice lady at the cake shop"

Well, it's a good point to make: if she is so interested she could find a business in another city and ask THEM to mentor her...I agree with just suggesting expos and such, I think that you can draw the line there. As far as supplies, I would only give her the info for what YOU can supply her. I don't understand her thinking...or WHY she would ask someone so close...it's nuts. Bottom line: what would Donald Trump do? Business is Business... That said, I don't own my own, but you worked really hard to get where you are at. IF she was opening up in another city, that would be fine.
Just my humble opinion.

I don't want anyone to think that I am unwilling to help my fellow man or that I have a front row seat in hell with my name on it (although, who knows?). It's just that this is not a side job, a hobby or something I do for fun. I am 100% owner, operator, baker, decorator and everything else to this business. I have no other source of income, and my husband does not contribute to the expenses of the business, so I take competition very seriously. I am not saying she should not be opening her shop, just that I am not willing to show her the ropes of how. That said, if someone comes in and looks at a display cake and asks how I made a certain decoration or what tip to use to make whatever, I am more than happy to tell them, my techniques are not a secret. However, the business contacts and insites that I have learned over the years are a different story. This is the business aspect of things and that is 80% of running a bakery that sustains itself. The decorating is really just a tiny portion of the skills I needed to open this business. It took me 4 years of changing and researching and negotiating to finally get a supplier to truck me boards and boxes to save me either shipping or driving 3 hours to their warehouse, I went through 4 different distributers before finding one that I could get several different brands from in a pinch instead of ordering from each individual company and having to meet each of their minimums, etc. It's all part of building and growing a business. You learn how to deal with advertising, and suppliers, and everything else that makes you a better business person. I am much better at what I do now than I was when I opened, and don't get me wrong, I asked for advice, from a lot of people. But not from the other bakery that was in town. I asked my grandpa that had run his own service station for 40+ years, I talked to my neighbor that had owned a flower shop for many years, and so on. That would be very different, I understand the need for a "mentor", but I should not be it.
I really appreciate everyone's support and suggestions, sometimes it's hard to think of something tactfull to say when someone is right there, so it helps to have those to think over and have in my head!
Thanks again!
-Lori

I stumbled upon all of these posts while searching for some advice about a Wedding Cake problem I had last weekend. To my amazement, I figured out that you all are talking about ME! Or at least I am pretty sure you are talking about me. I am the one who will be opening a shop about 2 blocks from Lori. You all are pretty harshâ¦.especially not knowing the background or even knowing anything about the other person. I attended my first ICES convention last year and everyone was so helpful and friendly to one anotherâ¦I am truly set back by the seemingly hostile remarks from most of you.

And to Lori: I do wish that you had the courtesy to speak to me face to face instead of posting on CakeCentral, a very commonly used site that I frequent myself. I am a very approachable and honest person if you get to know me instead of automatically labeling me as âcompetitionâ. That is where the naivety comes into play her I guess. I was naïve to think that I could talk to you and that we could be friends like so many other âcompetitorsâ I have read about in other states/cities. My family warned me about the âbusinessâ side of things, but I told them that I was happy to be naïve and still like people (for the most part). I told them that I would stay this way until I had definite reason to be jaded. Perhaps I come off as naive, but I have done my researchâ¦lots of research. If I donâtâ know the answer to something I look it up! Most of my questions are not to pick your brain, but to see how we can work together (me purchasing my boxes from you, etc.) and to just plainly make conversation with you. What else should we talk about? I know for a fact we have Cake decorating in common. In NO way am I out to disrupt your business. As you said before, there is plenty of business to go around. I too plan to make a living along side my husband in this new business venture. I felt that I could talk to you because in the past you were friendly and offered advice when I was going to school (long, long, long before I figured out that I wanted to have my own business).

I figured that in a way you would feel used and that some day we would have to discuss this. I want you to know that I was NOT using you to open my own shop. When I met with you while I was in College (under grad.) it was for an assignment and I would have never done it if I didnât have to. But, since you were willing to talk to me and you were always willing to talk to me after that, I just assumed that you would still be. I absolutely HATE the way other businesses treat each other. I would hope to move beyond that cliché of âbusiness is businessâ. We live and operate in a very small town comparable to others and it would make life so much easier if we could confide in one another and rely on one another. If I canât fulfill an order, I would love to feel comfortable enough calling you and refereeing a client to you before anyone else.

Some how, while trying to fulfill my dream; I have been labeled the bad guy. Perhaps casually talking to you about my plans wasnât the right way to go about it? I apologize for that. It is an awkward situation but I felt that I should let you know of my plans, rather than just opening shop and not telling you at all.

Although we will both carry baked goods and offer Wedding Cake and decorated cakes for parties, etc. I feel that we are totally different. I will have a storefront for people to come in and set, have coffee, eat come sweets and just relax. I will NOT be selling supplies or anything like that. I have even been considering sending all rentals to you instead of purchasing them myself. These are the ways in which I think we can help and compliment each other. Neither one of us are going anywhere (providing that I ever get my doors open =) ), so I hope that we can get past this and work together. I am not out to steel your business ideas. I have my own business plan and have done plenty of research. It is just nice sometimes to talk to a person face to face in the same area. I plan on learning and adapting as I go. I understand that it is very difficult and I am willing to go through it on my own.

You donât have to hide from me when I come in. If you prefer that I not talk to you at all, I can learn to be okay with that. I just ask that you are honest with me, because I have been nothing but honest with you.

To comment and clarify on a couple of things: I am so sorry that we have the same last name and that people might get us confusedâ¦it is not my fault, you can blame my husband for that. I called the phone company to set up my phone # and asked if they had 231-CAKE, a local # and they did. At the time I had NO idea you had a 1-800 # with CAKE at the end. Perhaps I should have known, but I didnât pay attention. Iâm sorry about that. BUT, anyone who calls me, looking for you, I send them your way! I did NOT choose my building because it is 2 blocks from you. My building chose me. We could not have asked for a better location for the shop and what will soon be our home. There was space upstairs for an apartment and a backyard. As you know, we looked at your old building and it just didnât seem right. When the realtor said, hey, letâs walk around the corner and look at this one, we saidâ¦okay, sure. We fell in love. Even though it was run down and very, very old (1902) we saw great potential, especially for the price. We picked the downtown area because of the nostalgia. We plan on growing old in Pittsburg and establishing deep roots here. We fully support the downtown revitalization and felt that it only made since to be a part of it.

I hope that all of this clears up some things. I welcome discussion and would love to hash this out face to face. But, if it is easier to email or talk on CakeCentral, I am okay with that as well. [email protected] Same goes for anyone else who has posted. I fully understand why you all think the way that you do and why you, Lori, and troubled by me. But all that I ask is that you give me a chance. I seriously mean no harm. I think you do very nice work and am constantly telling people to come to you for supplies and even cakes when I am booked up.

Thanks for listening to those of you who want to hear the other side. If I didn't know me, I would probably have the same reaction as you all.

Thanks,
Heather

Is it safe to assume humble pie is being served at tea time today?

Remember all.. there's always another side to the story and you never know when it will be posted here.

I'm going to walk away laughing now while saying "Oh snap!"

Heather,

I am sorry your first post here had to be this.

Your reply was nothing but professional and well written out. I applaude you for your response. I don't think I could have been nearly as professional as you were.

Heather, I can certainly understand your defensiveness after reading the other posts in the thread, but I do think it's important to notice that every post in the thread was almost a full year old. Lori came here asking for advice from other cake business people about what their advice would be for the situation. We all do that sometimes.

I'm sure a lot has happened during that year, and if you have had a good working relationship during that time, I wouldn't be so quick to be upset. None of us know how your interaction has been during that time, but if she has been working with you, then I'm sure she decided that you weren't a threat and it was fine to do that.

Good luck to both of you in your continued businesses!

I started reading this thread from the beginning and didn't realize most of the posts were almost a year old until Laura102777 pointed it out !

The thought that kept coming to my mind?....

"A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle "

I don't know who said it, but it's true. The 'cake ladies' I've been fortunate enough to know and get advise from have been awesome in helping me and I appreciate them very much . As so many others pointed out, there's plenty of business to go around.

Oh wow, I didn't realize that this thread was an old one. I've always wondered if the people being talked about on these boards ever find some of these threads

I think you handled it well, Heather.

Thank you ladies for the responses to my post. Yes, it was a year ago when this message and question was posted for CC'ers. But, to my amazement I just found it last night. I frequent CC, but just now found this and to know that our relationship that we do have, and have had for the past year might be fake, it does bother me and I felt the need to express that.

I understand asking others for advice (isn't that what this is all about ). I just couldn't leave it be as it is with no response now that I am aware it is out there. And, for what it is worth I am hoping to resolve any issues there might still be. By the way...I'm still not open! Working on it every day....but, yes, I year later still not open . I do hope we can continue to work together though.

I'm going to have to bookmark this thread... it demonstrates a couple of principles I keep "preaching" about.

Hopefully, others will learn to extend the benefit of the doubt and compassion to others...

Thank you Heather...(you know who I am!) this post is one that I've read in the past...I breezed through it and felt that there was no need to post because I felt that this issue should have been discussed face to face. and I too, like Brandi, am going to bookmark this thread because of the feelings I have been having here on CC..if you notice I have very many posts...but, I barely post recently because of my emotional feelings toward things that happen here on CC


I think even thought you found this thread a year later...it's okay that you posted! you found it you felt a need to respond! so, if this ends up working out you can get all the kinks out of this relationship.

I really hope the best for you and your new business venture! I hope this works out!