dlp Posted 24 May 2005 , 12:40pm
post #1 of

my daughter wants me to make her wedding cake out of fondant covered cheesecakes....baking the cheesecake is not a problem i know how to do that.....what i don't know how to do is to stack them....also i plan on making them ahead of time and freezing them.....has anyone ever frozen fondant already on a cake...any help/suggestions will be greatly appreciated! thanks

32 replies
TheCakeWizard Posted 24 May 2005 , 12:58pm
post #2 of

Wow! This sounds like a big task. I haven't ever heard of anyone trying this before. Are you planning to make a small one for practice a few weeks (or months) ahead to see how it holds up?

I know cheesecakes are heavy to begin with and the fondant will make it weigh a ton! I have only one suggestion that MIGHT help. Before you place each tier on a cakeboard, cover each cakeboard with contact paper so it is waterproof (at least to some degree) otherwise the boards will absorb the moisture in the cake and lose their strength, especially if you freeze them. When they come out there will be condensation to deal with.

Fondant can be refrigerated, but be warned that even with refrigeration, when you take it out it will develop condensation on it and will be as sticky as fly paper until it has time to air dry and come to room temp.

I don't know if any of this is helpful or not, ... good luck and I look forward to reading your posts as to how this turns out. Don't forget to post a photo when you finish!

dlp Posted 24 May 2005 , 1:03pm
post #3 of

yes i am planning on dong a test one....i will be doing this soon....as she is getting married in aug.

i see cheesecakes stacked on web pages where you can order them...so i know there must be a "secret" to it.....it is a big undertaking....but that is what she wants....

thanks for the suggestion of the contact paper...hadn't thought about that..

brennafaye Posted 24 May 2005 , 1:09pm
post #4 of

is there anyway that you could be able to use the stands that go into the cakes and just have them very close to each other so that they almost appear stacked but not have the weight on top of the other cheesecake. I do not have experience with it but I was just wondering?

TheCakeWizard Posted 24 May 2005 , 1:18pm
post #5 of

Good idea about the columns. I know Wilton sells columns called Hidden Pillars that are just a little taller than a tier. You actually set the feet of a plastic separator plate into each column and it only leaves a small space between the layers, just enough to lay a ring of flowers or somthing.
Here is a link to those pillars on Wilton.com so you can see what they look like. They are trimmable hollow plastic tubes:

http://www.wilton.com/store/site/product.cfm?id=3E3119F0-475A-BAC0-5772682F766C019C

This way each tier is supported by a plastic plate rather than a cake board and they can be transported in separate boxes, and the boxes might be handy at the reception for taking home leftovers (if there are any!)

dlp Posted 24 May 2005 , 1:19pm
post #6 of

since i'm new at this....by stands... do you mean the pillars and the plastic cake round they fit into??

if so ....that would be a good idea.....do you think the pillars would be stable in the cheesecake ( as opposed to a regular cake)

i am sooooo glad i found this web site!!! i was really getting in a panic ...it makes me feel better knowing i have help!!

dlp Posted 24 May 2005 , 1:22pm
post #7 of

thanks for the link for the hidden pillars......at least i feel i'm on the right track!

TheCakeWizard Posted 24 May 2005 , 1:37pm
post #8 of

How many tiers are you planning to make for your daughter's wedding?
There are many ways of approaching this task. Keeping the tiers on separate "plates" I think would be more stable than really stacking them with cakeboards between them. I am not sure how wooden dowels will work in cheesecake because any twisting of the tiers could cause them to cut through the cheesecake and fail to support the tiers above. There are other ways to make a tiered cake that might offer more support. Here are some more links to Wilton.com that show other possibilities:

Crystal Clear Cake Divider set is sturdy. Each tier sits on a sturdy round plate and clear pillars go through the tier below resting on either the table or the plastic plate in the next tier down.

http://www.wilton.com/store/site/product.cfm?id=3E3143DE-475A-BAC0-52E8E24115E1EED0&fid=3E331070-475A-BAC0-59D1F5191FA0F3DB

Tall Tier Stand, you core each tier and assemble the tree like structure. Very stable and each tier is well supported:

http://www.wilton.com/store/site/product.cfm?id=3E30BB93-475A-BAC0-52555DC793C1FEC1&fid=3E33109F-475A-BAC0-514197B5E889D67F

The general page of Wilton cake stands so you can see other photos of other types of stands:

http://www.wilton.com/store/site/department.cfm?id=3E305642-475A-BAC0-54CCA99DC6372101

dlp Posted 24 May 2005 , 2:09pm
post #9 of

i'm not sure how many tiers....since i wasn't sure how to do it....she wants the bottom to be a 14"........and then maybe a 10" and 8"


what do you think about this idea...using 12" crystal pillars that i ordered thru a local party supply store.....putting the 14" on the bottom.....and then using the 12" pillars next....and then putting the 10' next...with the 8"setting on the 10"......do you think that would be too heavy??

i was thinking that the space between the 14" and the 10" would leave room to decorate with a flower arrangement......thanks for all the links....

TheCakeWizard Posted 24 May 2005 , 4:27pm

I don't know where you got the 12" pillars from but I think they might be too wobbly to hold a 10" and 8" fondant covered cheesecakes. Remember the 14" cheesecake isn't really "supporting" the weight of the upper tiers but it does "steady" the pillars to some degree. 12" is pretty high up. I know the crystal look pillars only come in 7.5" and 9". Usually taller pillars are meant to be used with large diameter plates for fountains to be placed underneath, not for in between cake tiers.

Maybe someone who has actually worked with cheesecake could give you advice from EXPERIENCE, I am just extrapolating from working with dense cakes like pound-cake type tiers. Cheesecake is much creamier and soft than poundcake so my concern would be if someone bumped into the table and jarred the cake, ... would the heavy upper load twist a little and cause the bottom pillars to twist as a unit and collapse the upper ones.

Again, since I haven't actually done cheesecake, I can only guess. But you may be quite surprised at how heavy fondant is in addition to the cake! I don't feel I am being much help at this point. Maybe some of our more experienced folks will pick up the thread and give you sound advice.

llj68 Posted 24 May 2005 , 5:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlp

i'm not sure how many tiers....since i wasn't sure how to do it....she wants the bottom to be a 14"........and then maybe a 10" and 8"


what do you think about this idea...using 12" crystal pillars that i ordered thru a local party supply store.....putting the 14" on the bottom.....and then using the 12" pillars next....and then putting the 10' next...with the 8"setting on the 10"......do you think that would be too heavy??

i was thinking that the space between the 14" and the 10" would leave room to decorate with a flower arrangement......thanks for all the links....




Quite frankly--I would be terrified to use 12" pillars to hold up the next two layers. Cheesecake is just not dense enough, imo, to handle all that weight and if somebody bumped into the cake table--YIKES!!

I haven't done a cheesecake wedding cake, but for sanity sake, I would think that the hidden pillars and a stacked construction would be your best bet. The hidden pillars are really wide and can, therefore support a heavy cake.

Also--about your sizing--you may want to go 14, 10 and 6 instead of 8. That way you have a 2" border around the edge of each cake and it will look more uniform.

When you make your test cake--check the consistency of the cheesecake after thawing. Whenever I have made cheesecake and frozen it, it seems somewhat softer when thawed. Also, I have never thawed a cheesecake on the counter--always in the fridge. Anyway--I'm wondering if the actual cheesecake itself, once thawed, will be able to handle the weight of the fondant.

Finally--I have always eaten cheesecake cold. How long is it going to sit out before serving? Are you concerned about spoilage? Just curious.

Let us know how it goes.

Lisa

wandy27 Posted 24 May 2005 , 6:07pm

I totally love cheesecakes and will like to know how it comes out.

Wandy

dlp Posted 24 May 2005 , 7:22pm

i bought the 12" pillars at a store locally that sells cake decorating supplies.....along with a million other things...therefore no expert to ask if i was getting the right thing.......i can tell i did not!!! i'll have to find a different use for them!!!!!

i will be ordering the hidden pilllars....since i have not seen them in a store....that seems from those of you that know what you are doing to be the best method...

from what i've been told.....cheesecakes can be eaten at room temp..... but i can tell i will have to work out the timing from refrig to the room.......

i appreciate all the suggestions...if you have anymore....let me know.....this is something i really want to do for my daughter.....and when i was looking at all the web sites that sell cheesecake wedding cakes did not think it would be that difficult

you have all helped me prevent several mistakes already!!!!

since i have three months... i will be making several tests cakes...and i will fill everyone in on how it goes....

charlieinMO Posted 24 May 2005 , 7:47pm

This is just a suggestion, don't know if it will help or not but what if you used a dummy cake for the lower cakes and just had some cheesecakes in the back to actually cut up and serve? Or you could have the lower cake actually BE the cheese cake and then the two on top could be the dummy cakes that way they wouldn't be quite so heavy. Good luck with what ever you decide to do and don't forget to post those pictures!! icon_lol.gif

Charlotte

Misska21 Posted 24 May 2005 , 8:15pm

That is a good idea charlieinMO!

TheCakeWizard Posted 24 May 2005 , 8:54pm

All good suggestions, yes I forgot to mention about the 4" difference between tier sizes. That makes them look much nicer in a stack or pillared construction.

I like the idea of using the dummies as the upper tiers and having serveral "normal" sized cakes ready to cut/serve after the photo op.

One other question. Hate to bring this up, but have you and your daughter tasted boxed fondant? You should before you go through all this effort. My step-son and his fiance said they wanted fondant and I just happened to be kneading a bit in my hands at the moment so I pinched off a little and let them taste it. The faces they made were incredible! Some people love it and some think it tastes like play-dough that we used to use as children. I have tried using some vanilla to flavor it, but it gets very sticky.
My stepson said, "why don't you just 'whip up' a batch and make some from scratch to let us taste. So I used a recipe I believe was from a Colette Peters book (got it off the internet from someone's site who said it was from one of her books) and I tried it using a tsp of vanilla and a tsp of Cream Bouquet flavorings. Came out fantastic. That's what I used to make the sample cake I have posted that is white and lavender with clear bead strings.

Bottom line, the bride and groom should taste it before they have you make such a supreme effort just for the pretty look.

dlp Posted 24 May 2005 , 9:04pm

the dummy cake is a great idea......if i used the 14" real cheesecake on the bottom and the dummy cakes on top....do you think the 12" pillars would work....or would you still use the hidden pillars??

and no i haven't tasted the boxed fondant yet.....although i have bought several of the 5 lb boxes......hehehe....i am really out of my element..... but i will taste it with them before i buy anymore.....i'll look for a recipe for rolled fondant....but a friend had told me it was hard to make...

thanks for all the help...i fell like i have a new group of friends!!!

TheCakeWizard Posted 24 May 2005 , 9:17pm

How thick will your 14" cheesecake be?
Most "cake" tiers are 3.5"-4" think.
I'm just trying to picture what the 12" pillars would look like ... In a 4" tier, that would still leave a half foot of open space between the tiers and that seems like a lot. I don't think I personally have ever seen 12" pillars used between tiers.

To our other more experienced folks, have any of you used 12" pillars to separate tiers? How does it look? I know a long time ago I made a 3 tier mini cake with an old set of graduated heart pans and I tried using cookie sticks for the pillars. It looked awkward and it fell down. Just wouldn't want all your effort to have a similar look proportionally.

When you make your sample ahead of time, can you try putting the 12" pillars in that with a plate above and stack a 10" and 6" dummy on top (unfinished, just to get the idea of size and proportion) and see if you like the look? You would also get to see if it wobbles. You might sit one of thos 5Lb boxes on top of the dummies just to see if it will hod the weight or if it gets wobbly.

peacockplace Posted 24 May 2005 , 9:30pm

If you don't like the taste of the boxed you can always add a little flavor to it. my favorite is almond, but there are lots of others you can try. I love the taste of homemade marshmallow fondant, but for fondant beginners I think the boxed is a little easier to work with.

dlp Posted 24 May 2005 , 10:14pm

when i do the samples....i think i will make the 14" which will be 2" tall....that's the size of the pan....try the 12" with the dummies......and will try putting the 5 lb boxes on to try the weight

about the flavoring....is it liquid flavoring that you use?? i never even considered that the boxed fondant wouldn't taste good......as it made by the "big" company of cake decorating.....i do have almond flavoring....i also have butter and lemon....would you still recommend the almond of those choices?

charlieinMO Posted 24 May 2005 , 10:25pm

Thanks guys. Doesn't happen very often that I come up with a good idea, especially before someone on here. You guys are always on the ball!! icon_lol.gif
The flavoring is liquid. It is just the extracts that you use for baking. I would suggest just using one box and dividing it up into different batches and add something different to each. Maybe one with almond, one with vanilla, one with butter and one with two or three all together. The box isn't very good imo. It looks really pretty so the dummy cakes wouldn't care about the taste. icon_lol.gificon_wink.gif lol I have heard of some other fondant that you can buy over the net that some have said tastes very good but I think it might be a little pricier. You buy it by two diffent sizes, one is 5 lb and the other is smaller (can't remember for sure) I think the 5 lb is about $20.00. I will look it up for you in just a little bit (have to leave and run some errands for now.)

TheCakeWizard Posted 25 May 2005 , 1:08am

You know, it just crossed my mind that I haven't asked you a very important question. Exactly what do your 12" pillars look like? Do they have a cup shaped opening at one end and are narrower and flat at the other end, or do they have a cup like feature at both ends? These two kinds of pillars are used very differently.
The ones with a cup at only 1 end are "push-in"pillars. You push the narrower, flat end into the cake (usually 4 of them) and the cupped ends hold the "feet" of a plastic separator plate.
The ones that have the cup feature at both ends require a plastic separator plate at both ends, both top and bottom. The bottom plate rests on the surface of the lower tier and it is supported by structures inserted into your cake like wooden dowel rods or plastic dowel rods.

If your 14" tier is only going to be 2" thick, you might want to consider shorter push in type pillars so the space between the layers is smaller. See what you think when you see how the sample looks. Your own judgement is your best guide.

dlp Posted 25 May 2005 , 11:51am

i just checked the pillars.....they are cupped at both ends.....and i agree with you that using the short push in pillars would work better....i really do appreciate the advice.....i can make a cheesecake....but the wedding cake is something i have never done..... i bought the foutain they use with cakes...so i'm thinking maybe just use those 12" pillars with that...since apparently that is what they are made for......and as i think about it maybe with a 14" base cake then using the push in pillars put two smaller sizes...(what ever looks the best) in the middle.....i also have 2 wilton 3 tier cake stands....if i use those i won't have to worry about the weight....i' ve been buying all these things for the past year.....figuring i would use it for the wedding.... now its a matter of finding out what works and what doesn't!!!!!

i'm just so thankful for all the help.....

dlp Posted 26 May 2005 , 2:39am

to charlieinMO if you find the info on the other fondant will you please let me know...thanks

charlieinMO Posted 26 May 2005 , 12:45pm

I am so sorry. I forgot that I had told you I would look for that info icon_surprised.gif
I found it at:

http://www.cakesbysam.com/store/fondant/index.htm

it is the Pettinince fondant. Now I have never used it but I have "heard" that a lot of people prefer it. Hope this helps!! Good luck.

Charlotte

charlieinMO Posted 26 May 2005 , 12:50pm

I am so sorry. I forgot that I had told you I would look for that info icon_surprised.gif
I found it at:

http://www.cakesbysam.com/store/fondant/index.htm

it is the Pettinince fondant. Now I have never used it but I have "heard" that a lot of people prefer it. Hope this helps!! Good luck.

Charlotte

thecakemaker Posted 26 May 2005 , 1:02pm

Satin Ice Fondant is also very good. It tastes good and can be rolled a bit thinner than the Wilton fondant.

Debbie

dlp Posted 26 May 2005 , 1:09pm

thanks for the link charlotte!!!! i'll make a sample recipe and let you know how it comes out....but it might be a week or so before i get to it..

Debbie - the satin ice fondant......is there a recipe that you know of for that?

thanks everyone...i'm new at this forum thing....but i can you i will be a regular!!!!!

thecakemaker Posted 26 May 2005 , 1:14pm

Satin Ice is purchased. I get mine directly from Satin Ice www.rolledfondant.com or you can get it from Sugarcraft.com or i'm sure other places carry it. I used it on 40 centerpiece wedding cakes I did last november and they loved it!

Good Luck!

dlp Posted 26 May 2005 , 1:17pm

thanks for the info on the satin ice ...its good to get advice from experts that know what they are doing....

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