2sweetcookies Posted 8 Feb 2007 , 7:37pm
post #1 of

I am working on getting my food license, in Ma. it is prohibited to make anything that requires refridgeration becouse it is considered potentially hazardous. Although buttercream doesn't require refridgeration it still has butter in it, so I was advised to use "premade".

I really hate the thought of using the premade stuff, that's what you get at the local grocery store bakery. i'm already using a boxed cake mix and now to use a premade frosting, it's just not right. I really don't want to use all shortening, YUCK!!!

What do I do? I'm kind of limited.

39 replies
JanH Posted 8 Feb 2007 , 7:45pm
post #2 of

Here are some of my faves that don't use butter:

http://www.cakecentral.com/cake_recipe-2375-Brite-White-Buttercream-Icing.html

http://www.cakecentral.com/cake_recipe-2006-Dreamy-Cream.html

http://www.cakecentral.com/cake_recipe-2006-Dreamy-Cream.html

HTH

SILVERCAT Posted 9 Feb 2007 , 7:35pm
post #3 of

You can use the all crisco recipe. Good luck

awolf24 Posted 9 Feb 2007 , 7:40pm
post #4 of

Have you ever thought of using hi-ratio shortening? (Like Alpine or Sweetex) Many people like using them in place of regular Crisco if you do end up switching to an all shortening recipe.

That is kind of a bummer not to be able to use any butter. I use and 1/2 and 1/2 recipe now (and I do use the hi-ratio stuff).

HollyPJ Posted 9 Feb 2007 , 7:44pm
post #5 of

Did they just advise you not to use butter, or insist?

Powdered sugar buttercream made with all butter stays good for several days at room temp. The sugar is a great preservative.
I leave butter out on the counter all the time so it will stay soft for toast, too.
I wouldn't switch to shortening unless you have to.

It would take a lot for butter to spoil enough to make someone sick. For one thing, I think if it were a danger, it would taste so bad that nobody would eat it.

shelbur10 Posted 9 Feb 2007 , 7:46pm
post #6 of

Wow, does that mean you can't make ANYTHING that requires refrigeration? Fillings, etc? Your work will be cut out for you! However, if you end up using the all-shortening BC, maybe you can play around with some flavors to make it taste better.

nglez09 Posted 9 Feb 2007 , 8:18pm
post #7 of

Maybe they don't mean no butter in your buttercream because it's stabilized with the sugar; you pretty much change it's complete make-up adding all that sugar and other ingredients. Or else how could you sell cake? How could you sell pretty much ANY baked good?

Sugarbunz Posted 9 Feb 2007 , 9:37pm
post #8 of

WHAT?!! I think you need a second opinion. Is this a special license you are getting? Something different than what a restaurant or the like would be required to get?

kelleym Posted 9 Feb 2007 , 10:57pm
post #9 of

Seriously...butter keeps *better* in refrigeration, but I keep a softened stick out at room temp in my butter dish for long periods of time and it doesn't go rancid. Additionally, once you add sugar, the sugar preserves the icing (in most cases). Check out the study that Sarah at Baking 911 commissioned:

http://www.baking911.com/asksarahbb/index.php?showtopic=1299

2sweetcookies Posted 10 Feb 2007 , 1:37am

I spoke with the town inspector and he said I cannot use homemade buttercream. I did explain to him that it does not require refridgeration (I also leave a stick on my counter) and he said because it has butter it is considered potentially hazardous.
I am not able to use it and he recommended premade.

I know it sounds funny, It's just a residential kitchen license. Ma. guidleines are, I am not able to make anything that has to be refrigerated, custards, puddings, etc. So I am limited.

I'm going to try out the premade fillings but do they also need to be put in the fridge after I open the package and put it in the cake? If so I'm really out of luck.

How do I describe my frosting now??? People really love buttercream can I really consider it buttercream with no butter in it. Crisco cream? YUM!!

Thanks for the input.

spottydog Posted 10 Feb 2007 , 1:48am

just curious.....where in mass are you?
i live in mass and was never told no butter???
Hmmmmm I guess all counties are different

Granpam Posted 10 Feb 2007 , 1:49am

I use the all Crisco recipe and I add butter flavoring to get the butter flavor. Try a few batches adjusting until you get the flavor you like. I also beat my icing extra long so it is very creamy. It is a little harder to smooth but not any more since I started using the roller method. Everyone loves it.

kelleym Posted 10 Feb 2007 , 1:50am

I think your inspector is either a newbie or just completely uninformed and overzealous. Baking is done with butter. Can he tell you no cakes? No cookies? How is this different?

There are a lot of Mass. home bakers here, I hope they can chime in and maybe give you the numbers of their own inspectors. "No butter" would completely eliminate the cake business.

sweetviolent Posted 10 Feb 2007 , 4:11am

well i know in Ny i can be liscenced by the dept. of ag. for baked goods or candies that are not on a hazardous foods list-for ex. cant do chocolates beacuse they potentially although very rare could harbor/develop some funky mold. - if i wanted to process chocolate i would need to have a commercial kitchen and be inspected and liscenced by my county- so it must be something like that

mysonshines Posted 10 Feb 2007 , 4:17am

That is so ridiculous and sad! Call your news station, newspapers, whatever! Seriously, the powers that be would rather people eat food full of chemicals and preservatives? icon_evil.gif

Sweetpeeps Posted 10 Feb 2007 , 4:24am

What a bummer! I love the 1/2 crisco 1/2 butter recipe. I still use all crisco sometimes. Butter flavoring and almond seem to mask the flavor of the crisco better than just butter flav and vanilla.
I hope it works out for you.

elvisb Posted 10 Feb 2007 , 4:35am

I am in Iowa, and we have a similar law. I don't need a license to bake out of my home if I don't sell potentially hazardous product, aka anything needing to go in the fridge. I was also advised not to have butter in my buttercream just to cover my butt in case something questionable did come up. I use a Crisco based bc, and get raves reviews from it. I have enough cake flavors to offer that they still have plenty to choose from. And as far as fillings go, I use my bc recipe and some flavored extracts, and folks are none the wiser.

Selling non-refrigerated product does not kill your business if you are creative enough to find a way around it. I still bake pies, cookies, bars, candies, and plenty of cakes to keep a pretty booming business going. And so far no one has complained when I tell them no refrig product. They actually have thanked me for cutting out some of the decision making (and expense) for them.

nglez09 Posted 10 Feb 2007 , 4:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetviolent

well i know in Ny i can be liscenced by the dept. of ag. for baked goods or candies that are not on a hazardous foods list-for ex. cant do chocolates beacuse they potentially although very rare could harbor/develop some funky mold. - if i wanted to process chocolate i would need to have a commercial kitchen and be inspected and liscenced by my county- so it must be something like that




NO CHOCOLATE?!!!! icon_eek.gificon_eek.gificon_eek.gificon_eek.gificon_eek.gif

HollyPJ Posted 10 Feb 2007 , 5:56am

I don't understand what is "potentially hazardous" about butter in buttercream! A cake is perishable, too, in time. You can't leave it out forever.
I've left a cake iced in an all-butter buttercream on the counter for three or four days (covered, of course) with no spoilage.
This rule seems like overkill.
They seem to be lumping butter in the same category as cream, milk and eggs. Weird.

JanH Posted 10 Feb 2007 , 9:06am

This thread has a little blurb on "American Buttercream" you may find interesting:

http://forum.cakecentral.com/cake-decorating-ftopict-102541-.html

MA and business threads:

http://forum.cakecentral.com/cake-decorating-ftopict-82311-.html

http://forum.cakecentral.com/cake-decorating-ftopict-62491-.html

http://forum.cakecentral.com/cake-decorating-ftopict-30007-.html

HTH

elvisb Posted 10 Feb 2007 , 3:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HollyPJ

This rule seems like overkill.




I think a lot of rules with state are overkill, but they're done in the name of safety. We can question it all we want, but we're just going to stress ourselves out over something we can't change. And besides, why push the issue if it could potentially get you in trouble and prevent you from getting a full license later?

Phoov Posted 10 Feb 2007 , 3:59pm

It's insanity. It's big government crawling into our lives where it doesn't belong. If we sit back and continue to allow matters like this to escalate....that's exactly what will happen. Soon, it will be something even more riduculous. What began as an attempt to "protect" us from ourselves has turned into stupidity. We should be politely rocking the boat to return to logic. We're spineless wimps sometimes!!!! ASK QUESTIONS...DON'T JUST BE PUSHED AROUND BY PEOPLE IN OFFICES WHO DON'T HAVE A CLUE WHAT GOES ON IN THE REAL WORLD! lololol Boy, do I feel better!!!!

kelleym Posted 10 Feb 2007 , 4:45pm

NY City BANNED trans fats.

State of MA says you cannot use BUTTER in frosting, (only logical alternative being crisco...TRANS FAT).

God.

SugarBakerz Posted 10 Feb 2007 , 4:52pm

Very interesting.. but you can use whole eggs... what if you have a butter cake to make, no butter? WOWOWOWOWOOWOW... I can't believe this, all I can say is I am sorry and I am SOOOO glad, today anyway, that I live in the deep south... we love all fats, trans included.. in fact my little girl just finished her oreo snack, hehehehehehehehe.. but hey she is 4 weighs nothing, so she can afford it.. I on the other hand have a couple days of pregnancy left so I am trying to clean out the bad... easier to lose and better for the baby.... but it was fun!

amwake Posted 10 Feb 2007 , 4:54pm

How can you bake anything without butter? I think most of my recipes call for at least a 1/2 cup butter. I just got my residential license, if they had told me that I would have told them that there was no point in me getting my license.

2sweetcookies Posted 10 Feb 2007 , 8:05pm

I can use eggs/ butter etc. when i'm baking because it's cooked. So I can bake anything it's just a matter of what goes in it or on it.
Because the butter isn't cooked he said I can't use it. Iv'e left butter sitting on the counter for a couple weeks and it's never gone bad.

I'm in Worcester county but I think the rules apply for the state
http://www.mass.gov/Eeohhs2/docs/dph/regs/105cmr590.pdf

The board of health is NO help, when i first called them the woman told me I couldn't get a license and bake from home that I could only get a license and bake from a commercial kithcen. I've done alot of reserch and it didn't sound right so I called back and she had the inspector call me, he explained it all and the woman was just really confused, perfect example of following up. I only need a seperate license if I sell wholesale. Not to mention the apllication fee used to be $35.00 and is now $150.00 can you believe the difference, needless to say I am waiting a bit. I will talk to the inspector more when he comes and give him some print outs on safety of my "butter"cream. LOL

Meanwhile I guess I will try out a few new recipes this weekend

janH thanks for all the links.

SugarBakerz Posted 11 Feb 2007 , 2:26am

Well, that is a bummer for sure.. when I 1st learned to do cakes, before wilton.. my sis is law swore by the icing recipe which she called buttercream but it had no butter in it....

1 egg white, beaten
1 stick of plain crisco
2lb bag of sifted confectioner sugar
Vanilla to taste
Iced Water for consistency.

I used to use this until I went to wilton and found out you could sub butter for the crisco and have done so every since... I didn't like the original one listed above because in order to hide the crisco taste you had to use a lot of flavoring and then it became toooooo sweet... not to mention how greasy the crisco is... it worked well, set well, great holding color, but was too sweet for me...so I stopped.

I am sure you have used or seen that recipe before, but if not you could try it.. no promises that you will like it.. but if it helps you out I will be happy. Good luck with the home biz... our state is SOOOOOO strict here that it isn't even worth it.

CoutureCake Posted 11 Feb 2007 , 2:36am

O.k... I agree that the inspector is probably new or doesn't know the first thing about the chemistry of food and taking ingredients without cooking and making them shelf-stable for a period of time. Guess this means you're going to have to "nuke" your butter before you put it into the frosting LOL...

I also was going to mention the point about using eggs... I would say call and talk to a compliance officer and find out what they have to say in regards to this. Something just doesn't jive because they sell pre-packed buttercream WITH butter...

tobycat Posted 11 Feb 2007 , 2:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by elvisb

Quote:
Originally Posted by HollyPJ

This rule seems like overkill.



I think a lot of rules with state are overkill, but they're done in the name of safety. We can question it all we want, but we're just going to stress ourselves out over something we can't change. And besides, why push the issue if it could potentially get you in trouble and prevent you from getting a full license later?




We absolutely SHOULD QUESTION it! Just because a FEW think that something might, maybe, could be, hazardous doesn't make it common sense. If we never question anything or challenge anything, then things won't ever change. That butter rule is ridiculous and we all know it! Butter just doesn't go bad that quickly -- as has been noted by countless examples of leaving the butter stick out. I'm sorry if I sound like I'm coming down on you elvisb, I don't mean to. I'm just really hot under the collar about this issue. I'm in California, and we can't even have a home-cake business because we need a completely separate kitchen. I'm sick to death of the paranoid and this litigous society making it impossible to practically breathe.

Sarah

Sugarbunz Posted 11 Feb 2007 , 3:41am

OK, so can you make swiss meringue buttercream with crisco and be "ok"? The eggs are cooked (at least to some degree), and there is no butter, but it is DEFINATELY more perishable than regular bc. yet, it seems to this inspectors logic, the smbc is acceptable and the regular bc is not. Maybe you've already covered that and I missed it, but it just doesn't make sense to me. I absolutely understand why a lot of rules and regs are in place, but this is just silly.

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