I also have a clause in my contract about flavour and texture being subjective and if they want a refund, I have to have the cake returned to me, uneaten.  (will be updating it with a few extra pointers from the thread here though)!

I would also suggest though that you make it clear to people when they are ordering that you are doing a maderia sponge/vanilla cake as opposed to a victoria sponge.  I usually use a victoria sponge but did a cake testing with friends and family a short while ago because I have a vanilla cake recipe which is much denser and better for carving.  My vanilla cake recipe contains yoghurt and I personally love it but only 2 out of my 10 guinea-pigs gave it over 4 out of 10!  Their comments were it was too firm and tasted a bit dry and it 'didn't taste like a vanilla sponge'.  Everyone has different tastes so maybe it's better to manage their expectations in advance?

Hope she quits with the nagging now!!!

AMost welcome Jo.

I agree with you snowflake bunny, I think a lot of people expect Victoria sponge. I personally have never had a Madeira that didn't taste dry to me. A lot if people swear by it but it's not for me. But then if the customer's had jo's cake before it would've been Madeira anyway so it wouldn't be a problem.

Hope it's resolved soon jo.

Thanks and all good points. I will certainly make everything crystal clear in future about the flavours and types of cakes. 

So Update - got the cake home. Of course it was a little dry, because it's been sat cut I guess for two days now. What I did notice was that I didn't get a very big bit of filling in my piece, which was a corner end piece. I decided in the end to just refund the money ( i can hear a collective nooooooooooooooooooooo from you all - don't hate me) - in honesty, the layers were a little thicker than usual and I think there was too little buttercream filling in the middle, and I think THAT is what made them think it was dry. I do also suspect that they just wanted their money back, and decided to try their luck. But because there was a shadow of doubt that perhaps I should have put more filling in and the cake seemed dry as a result, I relented. I don't think the sponge was at fault because the trimmings were fine, but I decided on balance that there was a chance they were dissatisfied with the cake because it needed a bit more filling. Having said that, the trimmings were eaten without buttercream and were great, but WHO KNOWS basically. As you all said, it is impossible to prove or disprove this with old cake. 

So I offered her a refund and she was an awkward git about that, refusing to have it electroically, demanding either a cheque or cash, as I don't have a cheque book I said she was welcome to come here to collect the cash. Then she insisted on coming at a time when I said i wasn't available because she had a hospital appointment all day tomorrow. At which point I stated that I thought this was all getting a bit ridiculous because I was simply trying to refund her money! And then she had a huge rant about me having messed her mums cake up and that's ridiculous and that I should have done it right then shouldn't i, etc etc etc. and then my husband came over all "Right. This is enough." and jumped in his car and drove back to their town to take the money. Which I love him for. And when he got there she accepted the money by sticking her HAND OUT OF THE WINDOW!! :D 

It's over with now, though,, i know i gave in. But i felt the cake was a bit dry, and then doubted myself. arghh!! 

Thanks so much for all your support, you don't know how much i appreciated it!!!! :) xxxxx

AI think that's a good decision, the fact that she gave you the cake back suggests she was at least partially sincere... I mean if she was totally lieing shed have to be pretty dim to hand over the only evidence... I do think she made a mountain out of a molehill tho!

You did a great job dealing with her horrible attitude I applaud you!

AI'm with Gray, I think it was a good decision too. It's a shame you were dealing with the daughter not the mother, she sounds quite obnoxious. I know you're out of pocket but I hope you're relieved it's done with now and your reputation is intact. :-)

Wow, what a saga! I'm glad you managed to sort it out, and to be honest I probably would have refunded her just to get rid of her. Make sure you change her name on your phone to "PITA customer don't reply" so you remember if she rings you again. Block her from your Facebook. And tell any local cakey friends her name just in case she rings any of them in future, I'm sure they will thank you for it!

AWow...just wow...she really made the whole thing to be a "PITA" ...Well hopefully you are rid of her forever. ..I would do as the rest of the other post say, put her on the no cake for you list..and definitely put her as pita on your phone... I do photography on the side..as a hobby but I do weddings every now and again...I made a contract up and it states in it that no matter how much they pay me for the time of me being there and all the photos that if for some ungodly thing happens that the pictures don't turn out that no matter what I will only refund them there down payment or holding the date fee of $100 ...I send two copies of the contract to them with that stipulation highlighted and I also point it out to them...they must sign the contract and return it to me way before the date of the wedding....ive never ever not had the pictures not turn out ( thank goodness ) but I feel if that were to ever happen id be covered if they try and sue me....so my suggestion would to be to put a stipulation in your contract that only a percentage of the total amount paid well be refunded no matter what the reason is for them to try and get thier money back...this is just my opinion in what I feel you should do to cover your butt if this ever happens again.... Well live and learn at least its all over now... Happy Baking! ! :grin:

thanks guys. Yeah I think she complained because she genuinely felt the cake was too dry and hands up there's a possibility it was. Thanks so much for the support! Yes I do feel relieved, I can't tell you how relieved I feel that she is off my back. I would sooner run a marathon than ever make her another cake and that's the truth!! Thanks for all your advice over this, I have listened and noted the ideas of each of you, thank you :) I'm pretty much behind with my work now, but feel I can make a clean slate tomorrow and focus and catch up without one eye on bloody face book!!

Thanks again, guys, YOU ALL ROCK!!! xx

Good job!  I forgot to mention another very useful clause as well....'any refund is limited to the value of the initial order'.  Have a nice night everyone! x

JoJo I really feel for you - what a long drawn out awful situation.  Everyone's advice has been excellent, and I understand that you chose to give a full refund - but gosh that hurts.  

Snowbunny & Maisy have since made points that I thought about lying in bed last night - that the customer was most rightly expecting Sponge cake (ie Victoria Sponge texture) and you have provided Madiera cake (essentially pound cake / yellow cake / butter cake).  Even if the cake was still fresh enough on day of party (even tho you agreed it had seemed dry many days later) - the unexpected texture would have been confusing or a disappointment, even if the customer couldnt quite find the right words to describe what they thought was wrong with the cake.

If a customer asks for a Sponge - I use a recipe that contains no butter, and whipped egg whites folded thru as the last step.  There are many recipe variations - but usually sugar & eggs together first.  They are light with lots of air holes (hence the name sponge) and give/bounce back when pressed, just like a kitchen sponge. A Madiera cake (by my understanding so I googled and Wikipedia confirmed) - although called an English Sponge is essentially a butter/pound/yellow cake made by creaming butter & sugar first - it results in a more dense cake, that carves well.

Both are excellent cakes - but result in very different textures and mouthfeel. 

As you say, you should have been more generous with the buttercream filling, but to me, the only valid complaint your customer had was that you provided a different style of cake to what she ordered.  Unfortunately her method/style of complaining now means you are both feeling awful right now. 

Chin up and bake on.  You are obviously awesome every other time.

thanks, magic mouthfuls :) she has had the madeira before, in lemon version and was happy about it, but you are right, it is very different if she was expecting a victoria sponge, or a lighter sponge like the one you describe. I usually use the madeira, ironically, because I find it lasts well and stays moist lol :D In future, I am going to specifically say it is a madeira sponge, when I list my flavours for the clients, and looking back I kinda can't believe I don't!! You live and learn I guess. It was a bit of a hideous experience really all round, with errors on my part and dreadful communications on hers. I think I'd probably got a bit too comfortable and complacent, in my abilities, this has definitely given me a shake up lol :) 

Yeah you are right about the madeira cake, I guess because everyone had been happy with them in the past (including this same customer) i had become used to making those without a thought.  If they'd specifically asked for a victoria sponge I'd have told them it was a madeira, - I guess because this is the only vanilla cake I ever do and they'd had it from me before, it just didn't occur to me, which does, admittedly seem a bit of an assumption in retrospect. Of course they are totally different, and she did have a valid point there. 

Cakebaby2, I see your point. It was all done privately on facebook, I'd never have a public dispute on my page (can you imagine!?). The point is that I WAS and am confident in my product, and that's why I went to the trouble of getting the sample, questioning everything, and seeing the cake.  I think by the time it's got to the point of the client being this pissed off, NOTHING'S going to look good on facebook to be honest! I'f I'd refunded the money, she'd see it as an admission that she was right, I agree. If I hadn't, she'd still think she was right but that I also tricked her. If I'd given her a partial refund, ditto. It was a lose-lose situation. However, when I got the sample, and when people here had said about the madeira issue, then yes, I thought she did have a valid point. At the end of the day, I'm confident in my cakes, of course I am. Genuinely people are usually very happy. But these are cakes and I'm only human, however good they or I am, there is ALWAYS the margin for human error or the potential for something to possibly go wrong, I think it is important not to lose sight of that. We are not infallible. And in this instance, I felt perhaps, the cake wasn't as good as usual, for whatever reason. It wasn't minging, as you put it, lol, but clearly it wasn't what she was expecting,  she didn't eat much of it, and I am able to look past my own pride and concede to that! I absolutely get what you mean about not hurling refunds back at people with every complaint, but also I think in this case it would have been a bit pig headed of me to stubbornly dig my heels in and not refund on the basis that my cakes are usually good. It's cake, sometimes things go wrong, as we all know, and if there's a possibility of that being the case, I feel I should refund. I'm confident I did the right thing for my own piece of mind in this instance. 

It was an unpleasant situation, really, and it was stressful. But at the end of the day, it was a bit of shouting over a cake, we're not talking about civil war or famine here - I'm going to feel a bit crappy about it for a few days and then I'll be fine and life will go on....

You're a lovely sensible lady x

And Kevin gets a GREAT BIG gold star!!