I can't take it anymore - this lady is nuts and I am losing my mind. Each week is a stress basket of nutbag-i-ness that makes me want to rip my hair out...... I will try to make a very, very long story short. :LOL
I work with a lady from a local kitchen to get 'legal'. We have gone thru several different scenarios of how I will work off my "rent". At first, I would come down and back about 2 dozen goodies for her to sell (all her profit) and then could use the kitchen in moderation.
Then people started asking for the goodies and she wanted more then the alloted 2 dozen but said my prices were too high. This goes on and on. We almost went with me renting a space in her bakery case (I would get all proceeds and work 20 hrs per week in her shop as "rent" but then she changed her mind saying she wouldn't make any money). Ok.
Then we worked it so I work 2 days a week (3 hrs each - equiv. of $200/ month) and I would get to put a display cake, display cookie bouquets, display truffle holiday boxes, my business cards, etc. ONTOP of the case and any of these orders were to be MINE. That is the current scenario - or at least it was!!!
All these months of work so I can get to the holidays and today, when I finally got my first cake order (generating from her shop) she gets all quiet. She already flipped out when she saw the bouquets, saying she liked them, I should charge more.....she should get $5 ********* I shot that down quick. Then, today - after her seeing her regulars looking at all the stuff I had and making a fuss, then having my first cake customer stop by to make a payment, the dooty hit the fan.
She decides she needs to get 20% off all that (bouquets, cakes, truffles) and if I sell any cookies from the shop (something she is bugging me to do) she MUST get 50% but I need to price them cheap, otherwise they won't sell. She totally went back on everything and I have been working for months, patiently waiting for the holiday season to roll around.
I'm not going to lie to you, I flipped the hell out. She basically says that I need to bake (buy my stuff, paying for all ingredients, do all the work) and then sell to her for cheap so she can at least double her money. She tells me this is how it is in business - I need to get my name "out there".
(I know this is long and I'm sorry - thanks to anyone who bothered to read this holy freaking novel ) I would love to just walk....grab my display cake and cards and let the door hit me on the butt. But I tried for years to get a place and she was the only bite. To be truthful, I am (thank God) starting to make a name for myself in my town. People call me the truffle lady, etc. But I do need a commercial kitchen to make it all legal.
(OK, this is probably so confusing and I'm sorry. I want to spit bullets, am so frustrated I could cry and had 2 rum & cokes so I appologize. I am at the end of my rope & I'm breaking out in hives.)
So I refuse to back down - I'm not going to bake for free so she can make all the money so I can get my name "out there". I told her (politely) we should just go back to the way it was before - noooooo, she doesn't want to do that.
My husband, (who is really looking hot and hunky to me right now but it could be the rum) says she is jealous because she cannot bake or decorate. (NOT trying to be mean, she hates it, admits it, etc.) and she is livid seeing the attention the goodies are getting.
When I told her about my flyers, which should be done by Tuesday, her face fell. She was clearly not happy.....these flyers sell decorated cookies and treats, not italian food like her cafe does. What, in the name of all that is blessed and holy is she thinking>????
None of it competes with what she does but it is clear, regardless of our arrangements, if I make money, she needs to make more. Those flyers are my independant business - they have nothing to do with her, I designed them, paid for them and made everything and she is having a hot fit wanting me to sell the stuff from the shop (so she can take her 50%).
Is this normal? Am I crazy? Is this standard in the industry?
melodyscakes Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 1393
Location: kansas city
Posted:
Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:11 pm
I'm not sure what "standard" is but before you make any kind of arrangement, get it in writing so that she can't change the deal.
it is her business, and with out her you wouldn't be getting the business....
with that said, she sounds like a pain in the butt and I would not work with her.
try someone else. work like a dog and talk to every one you know, they know ect, in the next couple of weeks. you'll probably get a better deal.
this sounds like bad news all the way around to me. sounds like your going to get ripped off. we'll see what everybody else thinks.
and F.Y.I. I own a bakery, and wouldn't treat a potintial partner this way at all. yes, it is my tail coats you'd be ridding, but I am a fair person and would feel guilty for asking someone to do all that baking and then try to screw them. thats just me though.
good luck!
melody
CakeDiva73 Forum Fanatic
Joined: Jan 30, 2006
Posts: 3085
Posted:
Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:14 pm
Hmmm... so you think I am riding her coatails and she is due more than normal? (no sarcasm intented - I'm asking genuinly.) Because I need to know if I am the one out of line - I really do.
And quite frankly, I don't ride ANYONES coatails, lol so if that is genuinly how this is, I need to get out.
jmr531 Regular Member
Joined: Jun 03, 2008
Posts: 136
Posted:
Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:14 pm
It sounds like she is envious of your skills and growing success. I'm sorry that you are in that situation
Just wondering, did you two draw up and sign a contract that describes the arrangement at her shop? If not, perhaps you should look into doing that if you want to continue working there and selling your product there. That way there would be no confusion about what each of you get out of it and she can't try to change things out of the blue.
CakeDiva73 Forum Fanatic
Joined: Jan 30, 2006
Posts: 3085
Posted:
Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:22 pm
I do independant advertising, website, cards, hand-outs - and I pay for it. I wasn't looking to sell out of a B&M, she wanted me to. Maybe this is why she is acting like this - thinking I want to run a bakery out of her shop and not pay for it but that is not the case at all.
She volunteered the top of the case for advertising and the more she saw, the more she wanted. At a huge, huge discount, of course. I was perfectly ok with working/baking in exchange for rent so I can have my own business, which I work very hard for.
Please don't read any animosity toward you - it was the word 'coatails' that kinda opened my eyes (and I am almost certain I am mispelling that, lol but I've got too much stubborn Irish, hard core pride and willingness to work to sit by while she uses me. Maybe that is how she sees me? As someone riding her coattails. (ok, I tried it differently and it still looks wrong!)
CakeDiva73 Forum Fanatic
Joined: Jan 30, 2006
Posts: 3085
Posted:
Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:28 pm
jmr531 wrote:
Just wondering, did you two draw up and sign a contract that describes the arrangement at her shop? If not, perhaps you should look into doing that if you want to continue working there and selling your product there. That way there would be no confusion about what each of you get out of it and she can't try to change things out of the blue.
How funny you should mention that....in the midst of our run-in today, she quoted a % that was wrong, nothing I agreed to. I argued, she claimed she was right and I had it wrong. I just looked at her..... she says "Maybe we need to start writing this stuff down".
I jumped ALL over that and said "Yes! We do! That sounds like a great idea because then we wouldn't have all these misunderstandings". She gave me this odd look and then said "We don't have a contract (and I think she said we never will, not sure)".
So clearly she was just bluffing about putting stuff in writing and has no intention of signing a contract. I wonder why? So she can continue to change the terms whenever she feels like it? So she can dangle the "legal" carrot above my head?
TitiaM Regular Member
Joined: Feb 05, 2008
Posts: 147
Posted:
Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:38 pm
even if you decide to sell at a "discount" to her--you set your prices where you want them and don't back down. You are a separate business and your customers (she, in this case) shouldn't dictate your prices. If she doesn't want to pay she shouldn't get to sell them. (I think 50% is too high for this type of thing.)
And get a contract!!!!
just my 2 cents
ljdills Frequent Member
Joined: Aug 19, 2007
Posts: 235
Location: Georgia
Birthday: May 29
Posted:
Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:43 pm
It does no good for you to be legal if you are giving your work and product away. If you are going to give it away you may as well stay at home. I do not think you are at all out of line. I will say, however, that you definitely need to have a contract in writing. Maybe the best thing for both of you would be for you to rent the kitchen for a specified amount of time each month and not use her cases or her business in any way to advertise. It is crazy for you to pay for advertising, ingredients, do the work and give her 50% or even 20%.
mommicakes Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 07, 2007
Posts: 1350
Birthday: Jun 08
Posted:
Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:31 am
My two cents:
either get a contract (solid, iron clad, fair) signed and sealed
or get out!!
She shouldn't dictate your pricing.
sorry just what my gut tells me.
keep looking for some other commercial space.
littlecake Forum Fanatic
Joined: Sep 18, 2006
Posts: 2315
Location: the fine line between genius and insanity
Birthday: Nov 21
Posted:
Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:44 am
this isn't going to get any better...cut your losses and run.
i wish you were near me, i have a shop, and am looking for someone to rent the back kitchen, that is "normal" and has some talent.
sorry...people can be awful, i think she is jealous and greedy.
indydebi Forum Matriarch
Joined: Jul 07, 2006
Posts: 23749
Location: Indianapolis IN
Birthday: Jan 19
Posted:
Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:01 am
As the saying goes, She wants her cake and eat it too.
I dont' give a damn what she says, get a freakin' contract. Go to your own lawyer, draw up how YOU want it to be and let the negotiations begin! She can go to her own dang lawyer and make a counter offer if she wants, or she can sign on the dotted line.
As a kitchen owner, I'd want it just clean and simple. She provides space and equipment ..... you pay her rent. Period.
I pay rent for my shop. I pay fees for public maintenace (parking lot lights, snow removal). There is also an extra fee of $50 for me to put a sign on the big strip mall entrance sign.
So ... you offer rent for the kitchen use. You offer a monthly fee for use of (or for space for your own) display case. You offer an estimated number of hours usage.
As hard as it may be to walk away, you just may have to. You're not making money if her idea of "doing business" is just to take it all from you.
Kitagrl Forum Fanatic
Joined: Jun 16, 2005
Posts: 4817
Location: NE Philly suburbs
Birthday: Jan 31
Posted:
Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:04 am
I'd be looking for a kitchen at a church or other nonprofit that you can rent each month... that way you can do your business but you are not messing with someone who views you as competition or money-making.
That, or find a small business who would love to have your stuff on display, and offer them a small percentage and call it even and have it in writing so it can't change.
Deb_ Forum Fanatic
Joined: Aug 16, 2008
Posts: 4645
Posted:
Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:05 am
OK I'm going to give you a different perspective on this.....as a Salon owner who takes a commission from all of my stylists.
I'll try to keep this short.....as a business owner I'm in business to make money.
The owner pays ALL of the overhead associated with running that business, i.e. rent/mortgage, insurances, licenses, taxes, inventory, advertising, and utilities just to name a few.
Now, when I enter into a contract with someone my intent is to make money off of that person's work.....why wouldn't I want to make a percentage of his/her sales/work?
Yes I also want my employees to earn a living, when they succeed I benefit.
You need to find a balance that will benefit both of you....you the contracted help and the business owner who pays a lot of overhead to keep this business running.
In essence you are trying to run a small baking business out of this person's cafe. If you'd like to have more control over your part of the business, maybe you should approach her about becoming a partner who pays an actual $$$ amount each month to "rent" space.
Right now she's the one who really does have the right to call all the shots....it's her business.
I wouldn't bake another thing until you get a legal binding contract drawn up.
Good luck!
RoccosMom Forum SuperStar!
Joined: Mar 21, 2005
Posts: 5441
Posted:
Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:57 am
I'd say walk. Kathy is right--ain't gonna get better.
Moving to Muskogee offers more potential.
Which is why I have never taken a bite of this apple altough I have had offers to do so.
One, every cake (from home) I've ever made I've had to flip my kitchen, usually several times for one cake--flip it from home use to cake use--Dear God please deliver me from ever having to do that again as long as I live amen and amen Halelujah.
If push came to shove and I had to--yes I can do it. By choice? No freaking way in the Milky Way and surrounding galaxies past present and future through out all eternity.
If I can't have a dedicated space I ain't playing. (dedik8ed)
Two, beyond that frustrating factor, there's little to no control. If that company goes belly up, my equipment gets padlocked with theirs, etc. etc. All the what ifs are completely out of my control.
Three, you are under their thumb.
Merchants are often pressure packed geysers just looking for relief...they can be constantly screwed by employees, customers, regulations, the city, the state, the feds, taxes, plumbing, the roof, the weather, suppliers etc. Wound tight and rightly so. Why should they provide a comfy nest pour moi?
CakeDiva73 Forum Fanatic
Joined: Jan 30, 2006
Posts: 3085
Posted:
Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:06 pm
Yes, you are all right. And I am fine with the fact that she bears all the business responsibilities on her end so IF I sold from her shop, she should get a % but I think that me providing all the ingredients, doing all the labor/packaging and then getting 50% IF it sells is madness.
She never 'lets' me dicate my prices....you are all right, I need to get out. I am somewhat cash strapped (haha, aren't we all??) so knowing her, if I wanted to pay her a monthly fee, it would be outrageous. That's why I prefered working there instead.
I think I am just going to push for going to straight work for rent, no advertising, no sales from her shop, etc. I make my stuff there in off hours and sell it wherever I want. I can, however, almost guarantee she will have kittens since she seems to want everything I make (and her customers ask for it ) but, of course, not pay for it. I suspect in the end I will have to find a new locale because she will never stop pushing for me to sell her the baking.
Crap. Well thanks for all the advice and sorry for my rambling last night. I was so upset - total meltdown time. I'm better now, new day, I need to be strong and stop letting her bring me down.
Between her and my family who needs enemies???? What a week.
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) I would love to just walk....grab my display cake and cards and let the door hit me on the butt. But I tried for years to get a place and she was the only bite. To be truthful, I am (thank God) starting to make a name for myself in my town. People call me the truffle lady, etc. But I do need a commercial kitchen to make it all legal.
(and I am almost certain I am mispelling that, lol but I've got too much stubborn Irish, hard core pride and willingness to work to sit by while she uses me. Maybe that is how she sees me? As someone riding her coattails. (ok, I tried it differently and it still looks wrong!)
